Originally Posted by Willravel

If you really believed this, you wouldn't have egged me on. Let's not pretend that you have the sanctity of the thread topic in mind here. If I'm really the rabble rouser I'm made out to be, why is it always your solution to encourage me on by directly debating me on what was supposed to be off topic or my "agenda"? It was clear from the OP's second post that there were two conversations to be had.

Again, which statements specifically? I post something with multiple points spanning different topics and you accuse me of fallacy.

The few that came to mind in that moment were Zoe Lofgren, my Congresswoman, Dennis Kucinich, one of the few people in Congress I honestly trust to do what he thinks is right, and Ted Kennedy, considered to be the most liberal man in Congress. I thought I remembered Jeff Sessions might have been on board, too, but I'll have to check on that.

When has someone robbed you and then given you back most (or more) of what they stole out of an arranged obligation? Or are you under the impression that Social Security has simply not paid everyone or even some that have paid into it? The projections are certainly grim, none can deny that, but just allowing Social Security to disappear at this point is negligent. And the idea that somehow allowing people to spend their own money will be just fine is ignoring precedence. How did the US look before Social Security, even during times of economic stability? Let me know if you can locate senior citizen poverty rates before the turn of the last century, but we saw exactly what would happen during a serious economic downturn when people were allowed to invest themselves. I hope that we never go through that kind of nightmare again, but because optimism is silly without a dose of pragmatism, one has to prepare for the worst. Social Security was built to be free of the dangers of market fluctuation and instability. It hasn't been since it's been plundered, but if we can stop the plundering and make those that plundered it repay, it would be fine. Raise the cap, protect the money we have, repay the money "borrowed.

There's one other thing I read a little while back that I think might be important: almost 80% of Americans have no long-term disability insurance protection, which means that people aren't currently making these decisions on their own (unless you try to argue that the overwhelming cost of Social Security makes long-term disability insurance unaffordable, which is ludicrous).

Annnyyywwaayyy.... yeah, braisler, your best bet for the time being is to let her think everything is fine. You don't need someone like her advocating for you. Let it slide lest she create a panic. Besides, you're bright enough not to simply forget about retirement, as some other people do. You have the opportunity to invest the money yourself and if you're right about the Social Security stuff then your kids can tell my kids that their dad was wrong. I'll buy you a scotch or something.