Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post

Plan9 · 02-14-2009, 08:51 AM

I'm not an expert in body armor, but I know a few things that you may find helpful:

Concealable vests in Level II (9mm and .357) are lighter, thinner, and more practical than level IIIA vests. A concealable vest should be tailored to the threat you're likely to encounter. A Level II will stop 9mm and .357 Magnum, as well as buckshot. That's easily two standard deviations worth of the threats you'll ever see, let alone actually get capped by. It would extremely rare to be shot by something outside the level II protection range while wearing a concealable vest. You could go for a level IIIA vest and that would be perfectly reasonable, but I see it as overkill because it's a little like wearing a football helmet during sex... and despite any "issues," I've never been that paranoid. Obviously the converse philosophy would be to wear as much vest as you can because a vest that doesn't stop that grandiose .44 Magnum your mugger shoots you with is a waste of effort / money as well.

If you're trying to go light and tight against global jihadists, Level IV stand alone plates (front, back, sides) are the way to go. None of the bulk of soft body armor. This is assuming you need something that can stop 6+ rounds of 7.62x39mm. The problem with a plates-only setup is that you'll have some noticeable gaps in protection at the places where the plates meet up. You'll also need to buy a quality carrier for the 4-plate setup and that can get kinda pricey ($200+) since they're all made to super-ultra-MOLLE-OPS-TACT-TACT-TACT standards.

A full coverage tactical vest with plate pockets (such as the US military's old IBA) is what you need if you're a bearded door kicker and worried about threats typically encountered by the heroes of a Bad Boyz movie.

My experience:

I wore an IBA for nearly two years straight and I can attest to the annoyance of a cheap front-opening vest. Make sure you get a vest that is very adjustable with either quality Velcro or nylon straps with triglides. Nothing worse than buying something expensive that doesn't fit you just right.

I owned Level IV stand alone plates and a Level II vest. It was a well-rounded setup because the II vest could be worn under a loose shirt or jacket and protected me from anything I could expect while dressed as a grocery store ranger. The addition of the plate carrier with the Level IV plates turned the package into something you could wear on a GI Joe dynamic entry into a situation where someone was toting an AK47. Or, if you wanted long term "patrol" protection, you could just wear the plate carrier.

I don't like front opening vests (soft or plate carriers) because they put too much crap on my center line. A side / top donning 'n doffing vest is much more comfortable and makes more sense to me than having another seam in the way.

Things to think about:

Cost: You're talking about $1k easy. You could also easily make it to $2k if you want a top grade plate / soft vest setup.

Plate: Considerations:
-Shape: Get the triple-curved ceramic variety, avoid polyethylene. It's bulky and way too expensive for the weight savings.
-Rating: You can get Level 4 stand alone, which is my preference, or you can go with the standard "SAPI" rating and get square soft armor "backer" panels to save on plate thickness and bulk as well as ditching the need for a soft vest. A lot of different potential combinations to examine.
-Random: I've seen guys that get their plates sprayed with Line-X, the truck bed liner, in order to keep them from fragmenting due to multiple hits. This is probably overkill but Line-X is a fantastic product and I would imagine it works well for that sort of application.

Vest: Three biggies:
-Thickness. Modern materials make a level II vest nearly disappear under a polo. Older or surplus vests are more bulky. The higher the rating, the thicker the vest. Consider your need to conceal versus your need to protect versus your need to burn your credit card.
-Length. You're a tall guy at (73"+) and body armor is usually made for Joe Stubby. Make sure you get a vest that is long enough for you. Having a vest that sits on your navel is an open invitation for a gut shot. Find a happy medium in length. It shouldn't bunch up when you're sitting down, but it shouldn't expose your soft innards when you've got your hands above your head.
- Side coverage. Go for full side coverage on your soft vest. Some people like to skimp on the side coverage of soft body armor because it's "too hot," but all they're doing is wasting their investment in saving their own ass.

Carrier: If you intend on wearing this concealable vest for more two days a week, you'll want another carrier so you can trade out. They get funky real quick. I'd also recommend a sweat-wicking t-shirt for wear under the vest. Don't go bareback, it's gross.

...

You can always PM me if you get really bored and wanna talk body armor.

Maybe we can get a discount if we order enough pieces? See, I know these guys...

02-14-2009, 08:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I'm not an expert in body armor, but I know a few things that you may find helpful: Concealable vests in Level II (9mm and .357) are lighter, thinner, and more practical than level IIIA vests. A concealable vest should be tailored to the threat you're likely to encounter. A Level II will stop 9mm and .357 Magnum, as well as buckshot. That's easily two standard deviations worth of the threats you'll ever see, let alone actually get capped by. It would extremely rare to be shot by something outside the level II protection range while wearing a concealable vest. You could go for a level IIIA vest and that would be perfectly reasonable, but I see it as overkill because it's a little like wearing a football helmet during sex... and despite any "issues," I've never been that paranoid. Obviously the converse philosophy would be to wear as much vest as you can because a vest that doesn't stop that grandiose .44 Magnum your mugger shoots you with is a waste of effort / money as well. If you're trying to go light and tight against global jihadists, Level IV stand alone plates (front, back, sides) are the way to go. None of the bulk of soft body armor. This is assuming you need something that can stop 6+ rounds of 7.62x39mm. The problem with a plates-only setup is that you'll have some noticeable gaps in protection at the places where the plates meet up. You'll also need to buy a quality carrier for the 4-plate setup and that can get kinda pricey ($200+) since they're all made to super-ultra-MOLLE-OPS-TACT-TACT-TACT standards. A full coverage tactical vest with plate pockets (such as the US military's old IBA) is what you need if you're a bearded door kicker and worried about threats typically encountered by the heroes of a Bad Boyz movie. My experience: I wore an IBA for nearly two years straight and I can attest to the annoyance of a cheap front-opening vest. Make sure you get a vest that is very adjustable with either quality Velcro or nylon straps with triglides. Nothing worse than buying something expensive that doesn't fit you just right. I owned Level IV stand alone plates and a Level II vest. It was a well-rounded setup because the II vest could be worn under a loose shirt or jacket and protected me from anything I could expect while dressed as a grocery store ranger. The addition of the plate carrier with the Level IV plates turned the package into something you could wear on a GI Joe dynamic entry into a situation where someone was toting an AK47. Or, if you wanted long term "patrol" protection, you could just wear the plate carrier. I don't like front opening vests (soft or plate carriers) because they put too much crap on my center line. A side / top donning 'n doffing vest is much more comfortable and makes more sense to me than having another seam in the way. Things to think about: Cost: You're talking about $1k easy. You could also easily make it to $2k if you want a top grade plate / soft vest setup. Plate: Considerations: -Shape: Get the triple-curved ceramic variety, avoid polyethylene. It's bulky and way too expensive for the weight savings. -Rating: You can get Level 4 stand alone, which is my preference, or you can go with the standard "SAPI" rating and get square soft armor "backer" panels to save on plate thickness and bulk as well as ditching the need for a soft vest. A lot of different potential combinations to examine. -Random: I've seen guys that get their plates sprayed with Line-X, the truck bed liner, in order to keep them from fragmenting due to multiple hits. This is probably overkill but Line-X is a fantastic product and I would imagine it works well for that sort of application. Vest: Three biggies: -Thickness. Modern materials make a level II vest nearly disappear under a polo. Older or surplus vests are more bulky. The higher the rating, the thicker the vest. Consider your need to conceal versus your need to protect versus your need to burn your credit card. -Length. You're a tall guy at (73"+) and body armor is usually made for Joe Stubby. Make sure you get a vest that is long enough for you. Having a vest that sits on your navel is an open invitation for a gut shot. Find a happy medium in length. It shouldn't bunch up when you're sitting down, but it shouldn't expose your soft innards when you've got your hands above your head. - Side coverage. Go for full side coverage on your soft vest. Some people like to skimp on the side coverage of soft body armor because it's "too hot," but all they're doing is wasting their investment in saving their own ass. Carrier: If you intend on wearing this concealable vest for more two days a week, you'll want another carrier so you can trade out. They get funky real quick. I'd also recommend a sweat-wicking t-shirt for wear under the vest. Don't go bareback, it's gross. ... You can always PM me if you get really bored and wanna talk body armor. Maybe we can get a discount if we order enough pieces? See, I know these guys... __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 02-14-2009 at 09:32 AM..