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Originally Posted by roachboy
so what you're saying, ace,...
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If what I wrote is not clear ask for a clarification.
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is that you have no idea which of the various wall street folk who diverted bush administration no-strings-attached bailout monies into personal bonuses wear white hats and which black hats--what you're saying is that some pollyanna faith in the world of financial flows is what is required, even now after their own actions have ground the entire economy to the brink of a significant debacle, which in turn you deal with by pretending it's not there. what you're saying is that stating the obvious--that diverting this bush administration no-strings-attached bailout money into bonuses---was an ill-timed and ill-considered bit of theater is going too far. what you're saying is that we should join you in silent worship of the captains of the financial industry, even now.
that's goofy.
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The above is goofy and is no reflection of anything I have written on this issue.
Obama voted for the TARP legislation saying it met his requirements. Now he is saying the legislation was flawed. Some blame Bush. I think that is goofy. I think his statement on "Wall St." bonuses was irresponsible and beneath the dignity of the office of President. If that is not clear, let me know.
-----Added 2/2/2009 at 05 : 22 : 49-----
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Originally Posted by Tully Mars
I think the POTUS should point out when bull shit like this happens. Tax payer money, money provided by the Bush Admin., is going to bail out companies that are using some of that money to pay bonuses.
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Perhaps, he should use factual information. He seemed to lump the innocent with the guilty. For what purpose? Does he think his statement would actually shame those who would take government money, bonuses, shareholder money, their grandmothers money...etc., etc., if people broke the law investigate and put them in jail. If the law is poorly written with loop holes, fix the law.
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You seem to think at least some of these bonuses were going to "honest, good, hardworking people on "Wall St" deserving of being paid bonuses based on the terms of their compensation packages." I think if they deserved them their companies wouldn't need the damn bail out.
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There are firms on "Wall St." that did not want/ did not get government money.
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So now you say the current POTUS either shouldn't have said he thought it was bull shit or he should have given details of exactly which individuals he was talking about? You want the POTUS to give you a list of bonuses and individuals being wrongly funded by the tax payer? Wonder how long that press conference would run? I think the POTUS made it clear any tax funds going to bonuses was bullshit and I agree.
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Why wasn't it bullshit when they wrote the legislation? Obama and the Democrats are supposed to be "smart", right?
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In your previous post you stated some of these people deserved them. I'm asking you to provide such a list. If you know they exists you must know who they are, right?
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If you want to play. Here is one of note JP Morgan Chase. They would be considered a "Wall St." firm they made a profit in the fourth quarter of 08 and during the fiscal year 08. they did not do as well as in 07, but I would think the people at JPM may deserve a bonus.
No doubt you won't respect any source I give, but here is an excert from their earnings press release, you can do you own homework to verify.
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JPMorgan Chase & Co. (NYSE: JPM) today reported fourth-quarter 2008 net income of $702 million, compared with net income of $3.0 billion in the fourth quarter of 2007. Earnings per share were $0.07, compared with $0.86 in the fourth quarter of 2007. For the full year 2008, net income was $5.6 billion, or $1.37 per share, down 64% from $15.4 billion, or $4.38 per share, in 2007.
Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, commented: "Our fourth-quarter financial results were very disappointing, driven by a loss in Investment Banking largely attributable to continued markdowns on leveraged loans and mortgage trading positions, as well as weak trading results. We also faced higher credit costs associated with continued deterioration across our loan portfolios, including a $4.1 billion addition to loan loss reserves. However, we continued to see underlying growth in many business areas. The integration of our recently-acquired Washington Mutual franchise has progressed well, and we continued to grow in Treasury & Securities Services and Commercial Banking. We also opened millions of new checking and credit card accounts, experienced net inflows in assets under management, and gained Investment Banking market share in all major fee categories."
As of December 31, 2008, the firm reported a Tier 1 capital ratio of 10.8% (estimated). During the year, the firm increased its total allowance for loan losses to $23.2 billion, resulting in a firmwide coverage ratio of 3.16%4. Dimon commented, "While the diversified nature of our franchise and strong capital position have enabled us to weather the recessionary environment so far, we added $13.9 billion to our allowance for loan losses in 2008 to keep this important component of our fortress balance sheet firmly intact."
Looking ahead to 2009, Dimon continued: "If the economic environment deteriorates further, which is a distinct possibility, it is reasonable to expect additional negative impact on our market-related businesses, continued higher loan losses and increases to our credit reserves."
"We are doing our part to help stabilize the financial markets and hasten recovery. We assumed risk and expended resources to assimilate Bear Stearns and Washington Mutual. We continued to lend in a safe and sound manner -- extending more than $100 billion in new credit in the fourth quarter alone to consumers, businesses, municipalities, and non-profit organizations. We also prevented more than 300,0005 foreclosures, and we plan to help more than 300,000 more families keep their homes through mortgage modifications over the next two years. In addition, we currently have billions invested in renewable energy projects, including wind farms and solar facilities, to provide green energy for the current and future generations."
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JPMorgan Chase Reports Full-Year 2008 Net Income of $5.6 Billion, or $1.37 Per Share, on Revenue of $67.3 Billion; Fourth-Quarter 2008 Net Income of $702 Million, or $0.07 Per Share - WSJ.com
Now what is your next objection? Let's play! We can do this til the cows come home.
-----Added 2/2/2009 at 05 : 30 : 16-----
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Originally Posted by guyy
This comes down to class bias, pure and simple.
Work for failing Wall St. firm? You're cool. Take bonus, squirrel it away in a Bahamian bank account. No questions asked. We love you!
Work for failing auto company? You need to be fired and relieved of retirement and health benefits.
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Why can't you folks understand the difference between failing companies (GM, Fannie Mae, Country Wide, etc.,) and companies doing well given the recession? Most of the firms on "Wall St." are going to make it through this financial crisis just fine. Washington could have let the weak and failing companies fail. Failed companies don't pay bonuses, because a bankruptcy court judge wont allow it unless all other obligations have been met.
Just admit that the folks in Washington don't know what they are doing.