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Originally Posted by Slims
Dude, you don't want to get into a discussion about women in combat roles. Just because females sometimes come under fire does not mean they are, by and large, physically/culturally prepared for full blown combat. My experience with women in actual firefights is limited, but I was very disappointed.
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Sorry bub, I didn't bring up women...Crompsin did. So you had a bad experience with a lousy soldier, you associate that with her gender, but none of the inadequacies you mentioned are necessarily linked to the differences between men and women. I'm sure in your experiences you also encountered incompetent male soldiers, were they poor soldiers because they were men?
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I have had to run and fight while wearing 90+ pounds of kit at altitude. Ruck 130 pounds all night long. Muscle jammed machine guns back into working order. Man handle people I didn't want to shoot. Pee while driving because we couldn't afford to slow down. Carry injured soldiers and detainees out of a fight.
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I'm a reasonably fit man, but I would want at least four months of training before I attempted some of these things. There are people with all manner of physical strengths and weaknesses, some are men some are women. There are roles in the military for people with strong bodies and dull minds, people with weak bodies and sharp minds, and people with strong bodies and sharp minds.
Also, it's possible for women to pee and drive at the same time.
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Also, what Crompsin was trying to get at is that men will try to protect a woman to the detriment of the unit in combat. It is just a part of male culture and Israeli officers would lose control over their units when a woman was injured...
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Yes I'm aware of the Israeli findings. I'm also well aware, as you should be also, that those findings have been completely disproven or become irrelevant over the past five years. If you had served with
Leigh Ann Hester or
Monica Lin Brown would you think that all combat soldiers should be women? C'mon, of course not. Did the men in the linked situations forget their training and huddle around the women? (The answer is no).
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As for gays, I don't particularly care about someones sexual orientation...unless I am going to be naked around them in communal showers/toilets, spooning to stay warm in the cold, etc. Then it is an issue for me.
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Hate to be the one to break this to you, but if you went to a public high school and went through boot camp there's a 99.9% chance that you've showered and shat with homosexuals.
Turns out that gay men are capable of being in these situations and not gawking or wolf whistling at other men.
-----Added 21/1/2009 at 12 : 22 : 44-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
Shoot - Studies have shown that the female hand is wired better to use firearms than the male hand due to a better ability to independently use the fingers.
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Can you link to these studies? I'm highly skeptical. Why isn't this supposed difference reflected in sport shooting, piano playing, or ... you name it?
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Move - Problem. That's simple strength and endurance. The male model of human is generally superior in those categories. Straight biology.
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Well you're right, except about the "problem" part. The military already segregates people based on their physical capabilities. There is every manner of specialization based on physical and mental ability. There's a little gray area for effort and determination but some people will never be Marines, snipers, paratroopers, SEALs (most people), etc. Some people aren't suited to be chefs, techs, or truck drivers but the military needs those people too. Have you seen some of the chubbies in active duty? I have, sure standards have been relaxed, but also America is the fattest country in the world. I agree with Slims and you that standards should not be relaxed for gender, race, sexual orientation, etc. The military has a long history of bigotry though so those standards require close attention.
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Originally Posted by Crompsin
Personally, I don't have a problem with it... but it'd be silly to rock the boat right now. In the future? Go for it. When the U.S. is doing one of it's 10 year breaks from a "war" would be a good time to drop the DADT-Be-Gone bomb.
Wait 'til the war machine is taken out of gear before you crawl under the hood.
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Well good then, you're in complete agreement with President Obama (I've already linked this). I'm completely sure that this issue is only being floated by the right wing to rile their base and stir up controversy.
edits-grammar