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roachboy · 01-09-2009, 06:23 AM

so wait---you're arguing that israel has the "right" to decide which results of an election are and are not legitimate?
after this debacle in gaza, maybe the international community could decide that electing the israeli right to power is simply too irresponsible to be acceptable and that could be vetoed as well.

the analogy between hamas and hitler has more to do with the fact that both words start with the same letter than anything else.
it is a wildly false analogy---except maybe in the self-confirming context of total justification for any and all actions on grounds particular to the logic of "terrorism"

i've argued this repeatedly in this thread, but i'll say it again: THE error, the structuring political error, that opened the way to this disaster in gaza, was the israeli right's decision to refuse to recognize the jan 06 elections and impose a state of siege on gaza instead.

i see no way around this--and it is possible to be critical of choices and still be in general terms a supporter of things israeli. it really is. you need not operate in complete, continuous approval mode to be so--in fact one could argue that if you give up the right to be critical, you undermine the basis for your own support because it stops being a rational matter. i don't see what good that does anyone, including israel. particularly when the israel that is being supported is one dominated by the right.

i support israel as well, but it is the israel of groups like peace now. so i entirely reject the idea that there is a single way to think about what israel is, what it's interests are etc. i think the consequences of the collapse of the whole of israel onto the viewpoint of the right--which is central to the imaginary israel in the united states---does no-one anywhere any good. i could point to the politics of the settlements in the west bank as demonstration, but that'd take us afield.

gaza is enough to deal with for now.

01-09-2009, 06:23 AM	#144 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	so wait---you're arguing that israel has the "right" to decide which results of an election are and are not legitimate? after this debacle in gaza, maybe the international community could decide that electing the israeli right to power is simply too irresponsible to be acceptable and that could be vetoed as well. the analogy between hamas and hitler has more to do with the fact that both words start with the same letter than anything else. it is a wildly false analogy---except maybe in the self-confirming context of total justification for any and all actions on grounds particular to the logic of "terrorism" i've argued this repeatedly in this thread, but i'll say it again: THE error, the structuring political error, that opened the way to this disaster in gaza, was the israeli right's decision to refuse to recognize the jan 06 elections and impose a state of siege on gaza instead. i see no way around this--and it is possible to be critical of choices and still be in general terms a supporter of things israeli. it really is. you need not operate in complete, continuous approval mode to be so--in fact one could argue that if you give up the right to be critical, you undermine the basis for your own support because it stops being a rational matter. i don't see what good that does anyone, including israel. particularly when the israel that is being supported is one dominated by the right. i support israel as well, but it is the israel of groups like peace now. so i entirely reject the idea that there is a single way to think about what israel is, what it's interests are etc. i think the consequences of the collapse of the whole of israel onto the viewpoint of the right--which is central to the imaginary israel in the united states---does no-one anywhere any good. i could point to the politics of the settlements in the west bank as demonstration, but that'd take us afield. gaza is enough to deal with for now. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite