Thread: gaza redux
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:11 PM   #108 (permalink)
Willravel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loquitur View Post
If I thought a two-state solution could work I'd be in favor of it. I don't think it can because I don't think the Palis want it to. Israel has already traded away or just walked away from lots of land and you see what it got for its efforts. The only solution that can work is for Egypt to take Gaza and Jordan to take the West Bank. Unfortunately, neither of them wants either misbegotten piece of land, and I can't say I blame them.
A two-state solution is the only peaceful solution, and regardless of being bombed, invaded, and otherwise attacked for decades and decades, I know that the average Palestinian wants peace. Sure, many have become radical, wanting the end of Israel, but I honestly do not believe that this constitutes the majority of Palestinians AND I believe that this attitude would decrease substantially during a cease-fire when leadership from each government is talking peace.

We both know that radical elements thrive when conditions are bad. It stands to reason that with improved conditions and "hope" radical elements would lose at least some of their clout. Will that make them more desperate? Sure. We saw that in Lebanon in 2006 with Hezbollah. But that doesn't have to mean that they will succeed in their crusade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loquitur View Post
Will, you're a nice person

Quote:
Originally Posted by loquitur View Post
who grew up in a basically nice country. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that other people's thought processes are much like yours and that we all want basically the same things. It just ain't so. What you're saying would make sense if your premise was correct but it's not. Have enough respect for the Palestinians to take them at their word. They elected Hamas as their govt knowing full well what they were getting. They consistently approve of attacks on Israeli civilians (yes, I know, the polls vary depending on how questions are worded, but ask yourself whether you would ever answer yes to a question like that, irrespective of wording). When I say that I wish the two state solution would work but I don't think it can, that's what I mean. There won't be peace when one side wants peace and the other wants victory.
You know they elected Hamas out of desperation, though. It wasn't some calm, rational decision. It was an emotional reaction. The plan with Palestine should be to attempt to improve conditions to lessen the anger, hatred, and resentment. How do you think the Palestinians would respond to news that Israel put returning to the boundaries of 1967 on the table? And how do you think they'd respond to removing all Israeli settlements from Palestinian land? How about taking down the walls?

And let's not pretend for even a fraction of a second that Palestine wants victory and Israel wants peace. That's below a man of your intellect. If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't use such asymmetric military responses every chance they get (compare t he death tolls, compare the death tolls of civilians). They wouldn't ignore the UN all the time (35 resolutions violated at last count). Please, please do not pretend that Israel is the innocent superpower and the Palestine is the evil terrorist aggressor. The longer people cling to that myth, the longer it will take to solve this.
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