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Originally Posted by Dead_man
Are you simply blind or just that ignorant? Seriously, i'm asking the question not as an insult, but as an inquiry.
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If you mean no insult, how about we sweeten the tone. Especially the sarcasm in your "quote."
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Government gets involved through "standards" the manufacturers will have to meet by certain deadlines.
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What standards? MPG standards? Hell, that's easy. The Japanese have been meeting them for years. So has Europe. Why can't we? And for what it's worth, if the government does not impose standards on businesses, then they won't have any. A business's job is to maximize income and minimize expenditures. Such does not necessarily result in good things for society as a whole. We've tried the "businesses have absurd amounts of power and little to no government regulation" thing before. Mussolini was a big advocate of that. We saw where that went.
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Nice deflect on the "kill the unions" thing, which incidentally, I never said. You always put words in peoples text to try to win an argument on the internet or is it something new?
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complete and utter nullification of union contracts
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Well, without a contract, the union has no power whatsoever, and is therefore dead. So yes, you did say that.
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The key here is following the money. The UAW and ...cough...it's monetary benefactors...cough... have helped run these companies into the ground.
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You are wrong. If GM/Ford/Chrysler made a decent product that people actually wanted to buy, the auto industry could afford the union wage packages.
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By not answering with anything other than a deflection means you either are willfully ignorant and a hypocrite, or just one of those people who argue for the sake of argument without much to back it up.
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I'm about ready for you to stop deflecting from the issue in favor of personal attacks. I myself am deflecting nothing. The fact that I happen to think that you are wrong, because you are, is not a deflection. It's a refutation of your argument.
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No one on the right is destroying or wanting to destroy the middle class.
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Again, bull. Prove me wrong. Every economic policy instituted since Reagan has been designed to erode labor and therefore the middle class. Trickle down economics is custom designed to give lots of money to people who already have lots of money in the theory that they will "take care" of the rest of us. 3 decades later, and it simply doesn't work. Your party's economic theories have been in play for nearly 30 years. Our debt is staggeringly high, our economy is in the toilet, our workers are getting laid off, our citizens are losing their homes, their jobs, their savings, their livelihoods, their retirements, and their future. Your way Doesn't. Work.
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(who was it that said the right consists of a bunch of fear mongers...really...with stuff like that going around? ).
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They are. That's why they declared war on a tactic, rather than a nation. A "war on terror" is like the "war on drugs." Neverending. Only the terror "war" is designed to keep us afraid so that we will keep electing the people who are fighting to "keep us safe." In both of the last 2 presidential elections we were told that electing a democrat would make us unsafe. How is that not fearmongering?
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No one here hates the workers. Businesses exist for the people that run them to create wealth for themselves. period. No one starts a business to create jobs.
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Correct.
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Jobs are a by-product of business growth. Economics 101.
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Again correct. And businesses will seek to pay as little to the people doing those jobs as they possibly can. That means that, if permitted, they will go to a 3rd world country where the wages are a fraction of what they are here. And that's exactly what they have done. It still creates jobs, but employing a bunch of sweatshop workers in Asia does not put food on the tables of our workers. Also Economics 101.
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Unions were a great idea back in the 20's, when there were monopolies and such to deal with. Today, they are leeches and criminals stealing money without a gun.
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Ironic that you call me willfully ignorant when you put forth false and misleading statements like that with nothing to back them up.
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Since they donate a lot of money to not-right (get it?) politicians,
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Yes, I get it. The right wants to kill the unions. Would you give a guy money so that he could buy a gun and shoot you?
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they get to be the monopoly and can exert a whole bunch of strain on a company until you get things like having to pay workers 90% of their salary until retirement because you were cutting the fat and closing a plant and this prick didn't want to find a new job. Seriously though, who, but the insane or really honest would find a new job over taking 90% of his 56k a year for no work?
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Show me that contract. Assuming you can, tell me how that's worse than a 25 million dollar golden parachute for a CEO that's kicked out for failure to perform. Or worse yet, why Richard Wagoner still has an 8.5 million dollar a year job after piloting GM straight into the ground. and you complain about 50 grand going to workers who are laid off through no fault of their own?
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Sure, companies are cutting some fat because the non-pro-business side is in charge.
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Since when were Bush and Cheney non-pro-business?
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I know, I know...libs do what makes them feel good vs what is actually right.... hence the condition of public schools, but that's another story for another day.
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Again, you seem to have forgotten who has been in charge of the public schools for the last 30 years. I find it amazing that the conservatives have run them for 3 decades, and yet you blame the liberals for their failings.
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I really decided to go out there on the anti-lib wing because socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried, everytime it's been tried. You folks need reminding of that from time to time.
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When did I advocate socialism? And by the way, no it hasn't. We are the only 1st world nation without socialized medicine. The others are doing just fine. Better than us, in fact, for while we do have the best medical care on the planet, 50 million people cannot get access to it.
And we have socialism right here, or do you drive to work on only private roads?