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Old 12-10-2008, 12:59 PM   #135 (permalink)
dc_dux
 
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Location: Washington DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirStang View Post
DC Dux, I'll take you up on that,

I have six points to make.

First, as of now, gun ownership is limited to those who have no felonious records (generally speaking, as with everything there are exceptions). In addition, Straw purchases are also illegal.

We have in effect, waiting periods, gun background checks and mental checks. Consequently, with the gun laws already in place, the extreme majority of gun owners are limited to law abiding, hard working americans who are as crime prone as you and me.


Second, what is so unreasonable of gun bans right now? It's as if sensible gun control never happened-- *it's already in place. *

Third, the last assault weapons ban restricted pistol grips (on rifles), collapsible stocks (on rifles) and magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds.

With respect, just what the hell does that do? It's as if a criminal who intended to kill people will somehow suddenly be unable to now that they can only shoot 10 rounds instead of 30 rounds before reloading. -Or- if pistol grips on a rifle suddenly make it capable of effectuating mass death.

A murdered person is a murdered person, regardless if the perpetrator used a knife, a baseball bat, or an Ak-47. But the media will pick up on the Ak-47 because it harkens images of terrorists and gangstas. People *LOVE* invoking the Ak-47, but in reality, it's just another rifle.

Fourth, the problem with gun laws is that they're mostly feel good legislation--at the cost of Constitutional right. They. Do. Not. Accomplish. Much. Again, with the examples I drew earlier, one sees geographical areas with *extremely strict* laws--yet have some of the highest crime rates. Of course, there are other factors beyond guns but it goes to demonstrate that gun restrictions are mostly feel good and aren't substantially effective against reducing crime rates.


England Murder Rates vs USA (England after WWII de facto banned guns, yet crime rates continue to rise)

GunCite-Gun Control-International Homicide Comparisons (showing that gun control isn't correlated with crime rates)

GunCite-Gun Control-International Homicide and Suicide Rates (further support for that...at the 5% level, there is no significant correlation of gun ownership with homicide rates)


Fifth, DC_dux, while I understand DC has a de-facto ban on guns, I'd reccomend you go out, shoot some, and learn about them. As I stated earlier, the majority opinion on supporting an AWB is supported by an underlying proposition that guns are evil. They are, in effect, no more evil than fireworks, or even chainsaws (fun or useful when used properly, deadly when misappropriated). Furthermore, an AWB will do no more but make it harder for law abiding citizens to enjoy their hobby.

Finally, even if an AWB is supported by the majority population--it does not mean that it is correct. At one point, this great nation supported slavery, jim crow laws and segregation. Were those laws inherently correct because people supported them? I submit to you that they were not. Like I stated before, majority opinion, although given great weight, is not intrinsically correct as it may be based off of false beliefs.
We can both find data that supports our position...so lets toss that out of the way.

I'll keep it simple....there are an estimated 240+ million firearms in civilian hands in the US, a nation of 300 million people. Why the fuck do we need more?

That being said...buy as many hand guns and sporting weapons as you want. I dont oppose that. Neither does Obama or most Americans.

But lets also consider...

... an additional safeguard to protect children from accidentally killing themselves or friends with a gun in their home. That number may not rise to the millions, but saving a few lives or a few hundred or a few thousand is worth a mandatory child safetly lock, IMO.

..better background checks at gun shows so those felons you speak of cant purchase weapons at such locations. Will they find underground sources? Probably...but take this one source away.

...many Americans, including many police and prosecutors, simply dont see the need for average citizens to own an AK-47 or any semi-automatic weapon.... your handguns and sporting weapons should suffice for any need...and banning their production and sale will ultimately limit the supply on the streets.

Call if "feel good" or "baloney" if you like. It doesnt make your position stronger.

I chose to look at it as common sense approaches to public safety. And so do most Americans.
-----Added 10/12/2008 at 04 : 11 : 31-----
And finally, in terms of your suggestion that I go out and shoot, I dont feel a need to personally experience the thrill of a firearm to have an informed opinion on public policy.
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Last edited by dc_dux; 12-10-2008 at 01:34 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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