Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Obama's election should bring an end to Affirmative Action

Cynthetiq · 12-01-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smooth

How does what you posted in that blurb support your claim that:

The "because of it" implies that the student is suing because he was denied acceptance based on the fact that he is not black, according to the substance of your paragraph. I don't see anything like that in the chunk you quoted. I don't even see any evidence that he was rejected based on race at all. Is there any?

And what did I say that leads you to claim this:

I'm at a loss as to the basis of your conclusions in both of those instances.

As written, the bolded portion is a non-sequitur. Would you fill in the premises that link affirmative action with not alllowing the best of the best to bubble up?

So long as there are mechanisms that are in place that allow for people to be given an opportunity to advance because of race, or given exception because of race, then some people will always SUSPECT position/achievement/ to have come from such mechanism.

So perfect SAT and 1% yet still doesn't make the cut? Not necessarily black, but not one of the "required" diversity.... in other words, maybe they had too many Asians already?

If AA requires that the candidates be from diverse pools as opposed to the best of the best, then how is it that they will be allowed to succeed when someone who has earned a spot but is given a denial because the spot needs to go to someone more diverse, allowing the best of the best to be represented?

In regards to the race for Mr. Li here's an article from NJ.com.

Quote:

View: Princeton is accused of anti-Asian biases
Source: NJ
posted with the TFP thread generator

Princeton is accused of anti-Asian biases
Princeton is accused of anti-Asian biases
by Ana M. Alaya/The Star-Ledger
Sunday July 13, 2008, 8:35 AM
For decades, critics of affirmative action have contended elite colleges, in their zeal to form racially diverse student bodies, have discriminated against top white applicants.

In a twist on that long-running feud, federal authorities are investigating an allegation that Princeton University discriminates against Asian-American applicants by accepting black and Hispanic students with lower entrance scores.

At the heart of both arguments lies the question of whether and how colleges should consider race when choosing a class. The Supreme Court has ruled race can be a factor in the process, though racial quotas have long been declared unconstitutional.

Critics say admission quotas remain a dirty little secret in academia.

"There is almost no other area that colleges consistently lie about," said Russell Nieli, a professor in Princeton's department of politics, who recently published an essay titled "Is there an Asian Ceiling?"

Princeton, for its part, denies using quotas. The university declined, however, to release admissions data broken down by race and test scores, spokeswoman Cass Cliatt said, "because we don't want anyone to make the mistake that we make admissions decisions by category."

The federal review at Princeton -- which adamantly denies it discriminates against Asians -- was sparked by a complaint filed in 2006 by Livingston High School graduate and Asian immigrant Jian Li. He claims he was rejected by Princeton and other elite universities despite graduating in the top 1 percent of his high school class, earning various honors outside the classroom and nailing perfect SAT scores.

Nieli said Li's complaint, because it was made by an Asian-American, may carry more weight with proponents of racial preferences.

"The people making these decisions are post-'60s guilty white limousine liberals," Nieli said. "They don't take a protest by a white person as seriously as one by a Chinese or Japanese or Korean student."

Others argue Asian students are wrongfully being used as racial mascots in the battle against affirmative action. Advocates claim affirmative action policies can help Asian students, because diverse classes help dispel lingering biases against minority groups.

"I have a hard time buying the argument that this particular student suffered serious harm," said Vincent Pan, a Millburn native who now heads Chinese for Affirmative Action in San Francisco. "There is a need to balance the private interest and the public interest, and in this case I think affirmative action does that well."

Li, who could not be reached for comment, went to Yale and transferred to Harvard, according to other published reports.

In January, the U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights expanded its review beyond Li's case to include all admissions policies for Asian-American students for the Class of 2010 at Princeton.

In his complaint, Li accused the Ivy League institutions of a "historical and ongoing" use of racial preferences for admissions, including bias against Jews at Princeton in the early 1900s.

He also cited a 2005 study by two Princeton researchers who found eliminating racial considerations at three unnamed elite universities would increase the admission rate for Asian Americans, while that of African-Americans and Hispanics would plummet.

At Princeton, race is one factor, including socioeconomic background, extracurricular talents and academic record, considered during the admissions process, Cliatt said. Building a diverse class is like forming an "orchestra," that may need different talents from year to year, she added. About half the applicants with perfect SAT scores were admitted to the class Li applied to; 14 percent of that class is Asian. Almost half of Princeton's incoming class this year are students of color.

A commitment to "acting affirmatively to ensure diversity," Cliatt said, is not the same as discriminating.

Li's complaint has been closely watched by the Ivy League schools, in part, because he asked for a suspension of federal funding to the university until it eliminates not only racial preferences, but also athletic preferences and legacy preferences, which universities historically give to children of alumni.

Ward Connerly, a former member of the University of California Board of Regents, and the architect of anti-affirmative action initiatives in California, Washington and Michigan, said the federal investigation is going to force "a very exacting examination of what Princeton is doing." He said it will get the attention of universities nationwide, contending discrimination against Asian-Americans is widespread.

Still, proving discrimination at Princeton or any college may be difficult, because colleges don't use a specific formula for admissions, according to David Hawkins, director of public policy and research at the National Association for College Admission Counseling.

Roughly 30 to 40 percent of colleges consider race in admissions, according to the association, and some 70 percent of institutions have a stated commitment to diversity.