Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Obama's election should bring an end to Affirmative Action

Cynthetiq · 11-30-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyacinthe

We have a similar problems here that over the last 10 years or so has just gotten worse and worse it seems. Despite the affirmative actiosn taken by the government in regards to trying to "make up for past wrongs" it doesn't seem to be working.

We still have large groups of Aboriginal Australians roaming the streets at night (I am referring to 13 - 14 year old girls as opposed to adults) during the week and yet I am aware that a portion of the taxes I pay goes to monetary incentives for their parents to send those same kids to school. Yet despite those rewards I know most of those kids don't, that they will drop out after year 10 (our last compulsory year of schooling) if they haven't already stopped going.

Do the affirmative actions of governments around the world need to be looked at in regards to how we treat minority groups - yes they do. In some cases they are not effective and merely encourage the types of behaviours that we are hoping to avoid, but at the same time as long as you have people out there like the KKK still active - as long as people like Nelson Mandela (I know the man won a peace prize but look at a few of his less savoury actions in Africa and you'll see what I mean) are held up as being wonderful despite their actions towards those they should have the most sympathy for how can anyone claim that affirmative action should be stopped?

There are those out there in minority groups who do take advantage of the systems put in place to aid them but there are those out there that are caucasian or asian who do exactly the same thing (look at the dependenacy payments single mothers get for example or unemployment benefits). So that can't be put down to their sex, race or religion because unfortunately people from all walks of life seem to enjoy screwing others over.

Do I have any ideas on how to fix these problems - honestly no I don't. I don't have the background information, the statistics or the true understanding of what life is like for those people to be able to make an informed decision and I think very few out there really do.

****

I know some people those paragraphs would describe perfectly with just the substitution of one word for another (obviously the bright green one) does that mean that I should tell my government to remove all benefits received by young white men and women?

Those types of views Timalkin are exactly why affirmative action is still necessary, as long as you are stereotyping the African American community Barrack Obamas election means nothing.

I just went to a Q&A with Baz Luhrman who spoke about the undertone of his recent epic Australia and that he wanted to bring forward the idea of the "stolen generation" which went on until the 1970s.

The Stolen Generation - TIME

It has been very interesting to me to learn about this "new" concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

What do you think happens more often:

1) A black guy is picked over a white guy because of AA.
2) A white guy is picked over a black guy because of racism.

I don't know which happens more but i'm sure they both happen. The AA system is no where near close to perfect but at least it is trying to solve a real problem. I personally think AA needs to focus more on social programs and education. But that would be crazy socialism and the right would say the world is coming to an end.

I'm not sure, but I find both bothersome because we are talking about race being the deciding factor.

Quote:

View: What if the NBA had quotas?
Source: Jewishworldreview
posted with the TFP thread generator

What if the NBA had quotas?
What if the NBA had quotas?

By Larry Elder

Judaism: The Jewish site | Imagine the following press release:

In a closed-door meeting, the owners voted to limit the number of black players, in order to increase attendance from non-black customers. The NBA now consists of over 80 percent black players, which creates a non-diverse and less enlightening experience for the predominately non-black fan. Thus, in order to continue basketball's popularity, the NBA determines player diversity a necessity to maintain the game's prosperity.

— NBA commissioner David Stern.

Before you could say "Michael Richards," in swoop the Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, as well as the other usual suspect "black leaders." Marching, screaming, stomping and howling will precede enough lawsuits to keep the entire American and National Bar Associations fully employed for the next decade.

Yet when it comes to colleges and universities admitting Asian-American students, this is, in effect, exactly what is happening. Because of the superior performance of Asian students on high school grades and pre-college aptitude tests, many colleges and universities, through unannounced policies, place these "minority students" at the back of the line.

California, in 1996, outlawed race-based preferences. After this new law, the percentage of Asian students enrolled at the elite, competitive campus of UC Berkeley increased from 34.6 percent to 42 percent by fall 2006. Similarly, the state of Washington outlawed preferences in 1998, and Asian enrollment at the University of Washington increased from 22.1 percent to 25.4 percent by 2004. Michigan recently passed laws outlawing the use of race in government hiring, contracting and admission into public colleges and universities. Expect an increase in the Asian student body at the University of Michigan.

Question: Why do Asian students and their parents put up with it?

Jian Li does not intend to. Li, a permanent U.S. resident, immigrated to America from China at the age of 4. He graduated at the top 1 percent of his high school class. On his SATs, he received a perfect 2400, and totaled 2390 (10 points less than perfection) on his SAT II subject tests in math and science. Yet Li received rejections from Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, the University of Pennsylvania and MIT. Li is not alone. Attorney Don Joe from Asian-American Politics, an enrollment-tracking Internet site — says he receives complaints "from Asian-American parents about how their children have excellent grades and scores but are being rejected by the most selective colleges. It appears to be an open secret."

Li filed a complaint with the Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights, with the matter currently under review. On his college applications, Li left blank his country of origin and his race, although he did put down his citizenship and listed Chinese as his first language spoken and the language spoken at home. Inquires about his race, said Li, "[S]eemed very irrelevant to me, if not offensive."

Why did he sue? Li said he wants to "send a message to the admissions committee to be more cognizant of possible bias, and that the way they're conducting admissions is not equitable."

A study of the University of Michigan's 2005 applicants by the Center for Equal Opportunity documented the hit that white and Asian students take because of race-based preferences. In an apparent desire to increase the number of blacks and Hispanics, the school admitted Asian applicants with a median SAT score of 1400 (out of a possible 1600 for the test in use at that time). This made the Asian median 50 points higher than the median for admitted white students; 140 points higher than Hispanics; and 240 points higher than blacks. Of Asian students with 1240 on the SAT and a high school GPA of 3.2 in 2005, only 10 percent got into Michigan. But 14 percent of whites with those stats were admitted, as were 88 percent of Hispanics and 92 percent of blacks.

What's more, the "boost" given to Hispanic and Latino students by racial preferences often backfires. Peter Kirsanow, a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights and a black attorney, said, "Would college administrators continue to mouth platitudes about affirmative action if their students knew that preferential admissions cause black law students to flunk out at two-and-a-half times the rate of whites? Or that black law students are six times less likely to pass the bar? Or that half of black law students never become lawyers?"

What took Asians so long to figure this out and file more lawsuits?

Perhaps Asians remain unaware of the damage these policies do to their own admission possibilities. Perhaps they consider themselves a discriminated minority, and thus support programs to "offset" the negative effects of their perceived opposition. Or perhaps they feel that despite the negative effect of race-based preferences on their own possibilities of admission, they feel sympathetic toward to the "need" to "help" blacks and Hispanics. Who knows?

In any case, 17-year-old freshman Jian Li now attends Yale. Not a bad foundation for a future. Just ask Yale law school grad and former President Bill Clinton, who, by the way, supports race-based preferences.

Now that you've read the above article and noted that it came from the Jewish World Review, take note that it was written by Larry Elder, a black man known as the Sage from South Central, who somehow managed to rise from poverty and attend Brown University.

Making thing about race continues to focus on race.