Quote:
Originally Posted by shakran
As I hinted at before, it's not the fantastic union wages/benefits that's killing GM. They could still pay that out if they bothered to make a decent product, because people are willing to pay for quality. Honda and Toyota both cost more than GM, yet they're doing fine because unlike GM their cars are put together well, the fit and finish is good, and they'll last until long after you're tired of them.
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That's the truth.
This figure of 73 bucks an hour is not what the guys on the line are making, it includes all legacy costs, pensions, etc. Your average line guy is making 28 to 32 bucks an hour which is pretty good for what amounts to unskilled labour. Say 30 bucks an hour. Based on 52 weeks per year at 40 hours per week, that = 2080 hours x 30 = $62,400 per year. Add in some overtime and what not and you're up to 70 grand a year, maybe 80. Like I said, not bad, but hardly 250k per year. (I think someone was funnin ya there.)
BTW, the Japanese Auto Workers in North America make about the same, however, since they are a younger orgnization, they are not saddled with the same pension / legacy costs.
One last point. The CEO of Toyota made 1 million last year. Toyota made a profit of 7 billion or so last year. Rick Wagoner, the idiot who is the CEO of GM made 15 million bucks last year and his company is all but broke. (That's about 200 times what the average guy on the line made last year. Do you think Harley Early made 200 times what your average line worker made back in the glory days of GM? Never.)
Bottom line, if GM built quality cars, people would buy them. The only problem is that even if GM started building quality cars, which isn't going to happen, people would still not buy them since their reputation is so bad, it's a done deal.
The problem with all of this is that hundreds of thousands of families depend on work at the Big 3 to keep them in house and home. All of these people have hopes and dreams, mortgages, kids and bills. It's not a good thing to be going to bed at night with this sort of thing hanging over your head. The death of the NA Auto Industry is going to affect us all. It's sad because it didn't have to be this way.
-----Added 23/11/2008 at 10 : 31 : 44-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars
Yeah, it's definitely a buyer market. Probably going to be for a while. If you have the cash and need a car...
-----Added 21/11/2008 at 03 : 04 : 01-----
Before moving to Mexico I bought a new Ford truck. Had 17 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. Didn't even make it home (70 miles) and it started having problems. There was a shake in the front end and the gas gauge would suddenly read full or empty at any given moment. The CD player won't play CD's. After returning it three times and leaving it, twice for several days, they managed to fix the gas gauge. They told me there nothing wrong with the front end. The mechanic and I went for a test drive and he said "that's just the wind, have you ever driven a truck before?" "Yes, almost all my life. I have a CDL and drove commercial long haul for a while." "Well there's a lot of bumps on this road too." I ended up taking it to a local tire shop and they were able to show me the tires on the truck weren't even round. They told me these are about the cheapest tires on the market. I went home did some research and found out they were right. Absolute POS tires. $1200 later and the front end didn't shake any more.
The CD player still doesn't play CD's. I had them replaced it three times. The shop manger told me the unit isn't designed to play CD's burned on the computer, really it's made to play store bought CD's only. I found that odd since it has an MP3 label on the front of it. Do major music labels even release CD's in MP3 format? I have a less then 50% chance any disc I burn on my laptop will play in my truck. If it does it won't necessarily always play. The cheap, $25, CD player I bought at Wal-Mart to listen to out by the pool plays all my CD's.
I had about 12K on it and one of the spark plug wires blew out. The front passenger seat is coming unraveled. The rear window started leaking recently. Man the list goes on and on and on. Bottom line is I wanted to buy American, I bought American and I wish I'd have bought a Toyota.
My Ex had a 1995 Toyota 4-Runner. We bought it new. Other standard maintenance the only major issue it ever had was the exhaust system and Cat. Converter needed replaced at about 195K.
I just don't think the big 3 have been in the business of making good cars. They've been in the business of making cars they can get the most profit on. That why they put POS tires on them, stereos that don't work and seats that have little or no quality to them. They're cheap. There's no vision for the long haul and they've counted on people like me who want to buy American made. People like me are closing our wallets and when we open them again more of us will be looking at imports.
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I have a 2005 Infiniti G35x bought brand new.
It's hardly perfect.
List of "issues"
1. Air Bag Light blinking - took 5 times to the dealer to fix before they replaced the spiral cable which sorted things out.
2. Creak in the front end - took 5 separate trips to the dealer (5 times is a charm) to replace the compression rods before the problem was sorted out.
3. Fuel gage won't read full no matter what - 2 times to dealer.
4. Drivers seat frame broke - I'm waiting for the part right now - 7 to 10 working days. Seriously, the farking seat is broken.
5. Engine appears to be using oil. Last oil change I noticed that the dipstick showed low by about a litre. I assumed that they just didn't top it off after the last oil change. Did an oil change. Now after 3,000 km, it shows 0.5 litres low. Something is up with that.
That said, compared to the POS Buick Park Avenue I had, it's a dream come true.
But don't kid yourself, the Jap stuff has its share of problems too. They're all shit boxes in the end.