View Single Post
Old 11-21-2008, 04:46 AM   #24 (permalink)
roachboy
 
roachboy's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
this has nothing to do with any vision of socialism. or communism. this is a version of the existing order. it's capitalism rewritten with a period of compulsory labor and very early retirement built into the picture. but one of the underlying ideas--that the capitalist mode of production is based on an unbelievable squandering of human potentials simply by virtue of how work is organized and understood---that i agree with.

the problem here as i see it is that there's nothing about organization in it, nothing about direct-democratic controls, nothing about how to do this you would have to transform education--which i think absolutely should happen. there's nothing about the nature or organization of the revolutionary movement that would be required to bring these changes about---there's nothing about any of the questions to do with how to get to this place, what this place would in fact look like, how this space would regulate itself---and if you think there's no need for collective self-regulation, you're kidding yourself. it's all in how that would work. and if you are in any way serious, you have to take the process of getting to this place seriously---after world war 2, there was aa region of revolutionary marxism that was built around direct democracy as the meaning of socialism. you should read some of that--socialisme ou barbarie, c.l.r. james. for both, the question of self-organization is central. for both the revolutionary movement was a kind of extended experiment in fashioning alternative social relations and forms of self-organization. revolutionary theory was about indicating spaces and situations in the context of which working people assumed control over production, raised questions about the nature and meaning of hierarchy, about the relation between an alternate possible social configuration and social subject who are fashioned in the image of this social configuration--capitalism--and how you might move from repeating the assumptions of the latter into thinking something beyond it, not only as a utopian vision, but at the level of actual practices.

what the op outlines is athenian democracy without the democracy part. what it outlines is effectively a rotating slavery system (the compulsory service period) with an amorphous aristocracy supported by the deskilled, rigidly organized work of successive generations of people. what the op leans on is a logic of fraternity hazing--you endure the hazing so you can be a brother later and watch the hazing of others. but what i think the op is really talking about is some kind of monarchy in the context of which a state machinery that you cannot necessarily see maintains functionalities while the happy peasants frolic about.

at the same time, i think that the ending of capitalist social relations could open onto a period of creativity the likes of which we have never seen. we differ on how we think we might get there, what there looks like, how it would operate, who would have power--this is key---people should have power, but not in the way they think they do in the states, which is a context in which, like the happy peasants in the libertarian monarchy above, we get to wander about powerless telling ourselves by way of official ideological decree that we already have power when everything around and about us demonstrates that the opposite is in fact the case. for people to have power means that people have to exercise it. if they revert to being isolated happy frolicking peasants, there will still be power and it will still be exercised, but not by you.

it's the same old shit repackaged.
__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite
roachboy is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360