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telekinetic · 11-18-2008, 01:25 PM

I am not entirely optimistic about the ability of anarchist tribes to maintain nuclear power plants, a space program, wafer fabrication facilities, and heavy manufacturing, let alone agriculture.

If you want a society based primarily around agriculture to survive, with no money, with people organized into tribes that work for the common good--that's easy, you just have to turn back the clock a few thousand years, (many thousand in some parts of the world) and everyone works until they die an early death at 35 or 40 from poor medical care and the toil of 12 hour work days 7 days a week.

The overall average amount of leisure time provided by our current society is unprecedented in the history of the world, so I don't buy the argument that we can improve upon this much by taking large steps backwards.

I think the point I'm trying to make is, this whole idea vastly oversimplifies the complex interdependence of modern industry--you can't pick and choose. Eliminate all industry, and you get stone age agricultural efficiency. Keep efficiency the same, and you get all of modern society to go with it.
-----Added 18/11/2008 at 04 : 46 : 53-----
(edit: yes I know this will get 'doublepost merged')

After some thought, lets assume you could treat the entire earth like a space station, and engineer self-sustaining agricultural solutions based entirely on solar power that never broke, never needed repairing, and were modular enough that they could be spread evenly accross the surface of the earth, to be within walking distance of everyone. Ignoring the medical field (the other major quality-of-life industry) for a moment, if we disbanned all manufacturing and engineering, the human population would explode (all that freetime = extremely high reproduction rates) until it reached the point that the automated systems could no longer support us, at which point we'd have population control via starvation. Massive human overpopulation of the earth is probably not that great for the environment, either.

11-18-2008, 01:25 PM	#12 (permalink)
telekinetic zomgomgomgomgomgomg Location: Fauxenix, Azerona	I am not entirely optimistic about the ability of anarchist tribes to maintain nuclear power plants, a space program, wafer fabrication facilities, and heavy manufacturing, let alone agriculture. If you want a society based primarily around agriculture to survive, with no money, with people organized into tribes that work for the common good--that's easy, you just have to turn back the clock a few thousand years, (many thousand in some parts of the world) and everyone works until they die an early death at 35 or 40 from poor medical care and the toil of 12 hour work days 7 days a week. The overall average amount of leisure time provided by our current society is unprecedented in the history of the world, so I don't buy the argument that we can improve upon this much by taking large steps backwards. I think the point I'm trying to make is, this whole idea vastly oversimplifies the complex interdependence of modern industry--you can't pick and choose. Eliminate all industry, and you get stone age agricultural efficiency. Keep efficiency the same, and you get all of modern society to go with it. -----Added 18/11/2008 at 04 : 46 : 53----- (edit: yes I know this will get 'doublepost merged') After some thought, lets assume you could treat the entire earth like a space station, and engineer self-sustaining agricultural solutions based entirely on solar power that never broke, never needed repairing, and were modular enough that they could be spread evenly accross the surface of the earth, to be within walking distance of everyone. Ignoring the medical field (the other major quality-of-life industry) for a moment, if we disbanned all manufacturing and engineering, the human population would explode (all that freetime = extremely high reproduction rates) until it reached the point that the automated systems could no longer support us, at which point we'd have population control via starvation. Massive human overpopulation of the earth is probably not that great for the environment, either. __________________ twisted no more Last edited by telekinetic; 11-18-2008 at 01:47 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost