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smooth · 11-12-2008, 05:16 PM

education typically tells a lot more about one's class background and life experiences than ability to think critically.
most of my students at the JC level were non-traditional students: parents, 30+, retraining for a different economic sector. I never saw a correlation between their education aspirations and the knowledge they had along with their critical thinking skills vs. the UC students I taught. In fact, except for a few handfuls from 300 person class sizes, it's been my experience that the 18-19 year old students were pretty atrocious as students on nearly everything except having enough money to afford attending a UC. That fact brought a whole host of problems, actually that made it more difficult to train them.

I can't convince you otherwise, but I think it's ridiculous to blame a working mother for her daughter's behavior. Especially when Todd was supposed to be the homemaker and the daughter is months away from being an adult. evangelical households experience the same kinds of issues non-evangelical households experience. might as well hold the fact that she works against her because in case you didn't know, a woman being the head of household instead of the husband is not scriptural if you take that stuff seriously. I prefer to think that people tend to balance their religious beliefs against their secular responsibilities and realities. and as far as I can tell, there is no policy she holds regarding unmarried, pregnant teenagers, other than the fact that she doesn't believe they should be allowed to kill babies. and her family subscribes to that, as far as I can tell. I'm sure her daughter's unplanned pregnancy was a stressful family event, but love and support of the person going through that is a Christian value in the general sense. I don't see her advocating on a policy level anything that contradicts that position.

Obama had a better grasp of international and national affairs for a lot of reasons. Some of them are the fact he had nearly two years to prepare for the public scrutiny of his grasp. Another point is that he was the lead of the ticket, whereas she wasn't. It's one thing to point out that she might have become president, it's another to realize she didn't have that in her head two years ago like McCain, Obama, and Biden did.

It seems like a large portion of your points are attributing things to her that she didn't have much choice in.
We'll see if she addresses her shortcomings in the next few years.

But saying that someone's educational achievements are less than another's because of the institution they attended is not realistic.
most of the people I got to know on a personal level from junior colleges were facing much greater barriers to greatness than anyone at a university that had very little to do with their ability or desire to do great things...and many have gone on to do great things, to top it all off. In fact, the very basis of community colleges was to provide minorities access to higher education and also to make an institution that participates at the community level in ways the universities can't or won't.
And blaming someone for the decisions their family members make when they aren't involved is not realistic, either.

11-12-2008, 05:16 PM	#41 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	education typically tells a lot more about one's class background and life experiences than ability to think critically. most of my students at the JC level were non-traditional students: parents, 30+, retraining for a different economic sector. I never saw a correlation between their education aspirations and the knowledge they had along with their critical thinking skills vs. the UC students I taught. In fact, except for a few handfuls from 300 person class sizes, it's been my experience that the 18-19 year old students were pretty atrocious as students on nearly everything except having enough money to afford attending a UC. That fact brought a whole host of problems, actually that made it more difficult to train them. I can't convince you otherwise, but I think it's ridiculous to blame a working mother for her daughter's behavior. Especially when Todd was supposed to be the homemaker and the daughter is months away from being an adult. evangelical households experience the same kinds of issues non-evangelical households experience. might as well hold the fact that she works against her because in case you didn't know, a woman being the head of household instead of the husband is not scriptural if you take that stuff seriously. I prefer to think that people tend to balance their religious beliefs against their secular responsibilities and realities. and as far as I can tell, there is no policy she holds regarding unmarried, pregnant teenagers, other than the fact that she doesn't believe they should be allowed to kill babies. and her family subscribes to that, as far as I can tell. I'm sure her daughter's unplanned pregnancy was a stressful family event, but love and support of the person going through that is a Christian value in the general sense. I don't see her advocating on a policy level anything that contradicts that position. Obama had a better grasp of international and national affairs for a lot of reasons. Some of them are the fact he had nearly two years to prepare for the public scrutiny of his grasp. Another point is that he was the lead of the ticket, whereas she wasn't. It's one thing to point out that she might have become president, it's another to realize she didn't have that in her head two years ago like McCain, Obama, and Biden did. It seems like a large portion of your points are attributing things to her that she didn't have much choice in. We'll see if she addresses her shortcomings in the next few years. But saying that someone's educational achievements are less than another's because of the institution they attended is not realistic. most of the people I got to know on a personal level from junior colleges were facing much greater barriers to greatness than anyone at a university that had very little to do with their ability or desire to do great things...and many have gone on to do great things, to top it all off. In fact, the very basis of community colleges was to provide minorities access to higher education and also to make an institution that participates at the community level in ways the universities can't or won't. And blaming someone for the decisions their family members make when they aren't involved is not realistic, either. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman