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smooth · 11-09-2008, 02:37 PM

what makes you think this problem is based on "confidence"?
Even assuming that a president being elected, who hasn't even taken office yet, has some sort of power relation to the economy, or even granting that the president in office has a direct effect on the economy, none of this fixes the problem of consumers lacking liquid assets to spend and producers lacking ready markets to capture.

I'm not sure of Ace's point regarding the Picket Plan. It's not "betting" on renewable energy at all. Natural gas is the centerpiece of the plan, it's not renewable at all and it's a commodity Pickens intends to sell. The plan may or may not be a good plan, but it's not a risky venture. If it was capitalism as Ace envisions it, then why doesn't someone, Pickens himself ideally, convert a fleet of vehicles, build the infrastructure for natural gas fueling stations, and then sell off the technology?

No, instead he writes a plan and asks the people to push the government to fund it. WTF? How is that anything like capitalism that rewards the good ideas and penalizes the failed ones? If it works, the billionaire who sponsors it and sells his commodity, if it fails the public subsidizes the loss.

And what's this about job creation and the tax rate? An economic sector can only grow so large. Taco Bell can only sell so many tacos, and that's what determines how many employees they hire, not whether their tax rate is 1% or 75%. Anything <100% of their profit is gain, so even if some people become unhappy about not making as much, no sane person would up and leave or stop producing because they make less profit than they did before so long as there is profit to be made at all.

The argument seems to shift to the idea that companies that are still employing people in the US are doing so because of the Bush tax rates? That just seems preposterous on its face, but I could see why the wealthy make the argument...I just don't understand how others believe it.

11-09-2008, 02:37 PM	#80 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	what makes you think this problem is based on "confidence"? Even assuming that a president being elected, who hasn't even taken office yet, has some sort of power relation to the economy, or even granting that the president in office has a direct effect on the economy, none of this fixes the problem of consumers lacking liquid assets to spend and producers lacking ready markets to capture. I'm not sure of Ace's point regarding the Picket Plan. It's not "betting" on renewable energy at all. Natural gas is the centerpiece of the plan, it's not renewable at all and it's a commodity Pickens intends to sell. The plan may or may not be a good plan, but it's not a risky venture. If it was capitalism as Ace envisions it, then why doesn't someone, Pickens himself ideally, convert a fleet of vehicles, build the infrastructure for natural gas fueling stations, and then sell off the technology? No, instead he writes a plan and asks the people to push the government to fund it. WTF? How is that anything like capitalism that rewards the good ideas and penalizes the failed ones? If it works, the billionaire who sponsors it and sells his commodity, if it fails the public subsidizes the loss. And what's this about job creation and the tax rate? An economic sector can only grow so large. Taco Bell can only sell so many tacos, and that's what determines how many employees they hire, not whether their tax rate is 1% or 75%. Anything <100% of their profit is gain, so even if some people become unhappy about not making as much, no sane person would up and leave or stop producing because they make less profit than they did before so long as there is profit to be made at all. The argument seems to shift to the idea that companies that are still employing people in the US are doing so because of the Bush tax rates? That just seems preposterous on its face, but I could see why the wealthy make the argument...I just don't understand how others believe it. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman