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Originally Posted by dc_dux
Ace...the broader point is the belief is widespread among allies and adversaries that a US/European (and other allies) coalition is likely to be strengthened under an Obama administration.
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I got that point, I acknowledge that point. Understand what I am putting on the table - I will use an example, you and me for example - If I start agreeing with everything you say, we can form a coalition and it would be strengthened whenever I do what you think I should do. My point is that, me agreeing with you and doing what you think I should do may not be in my interest - it may be in your interest - you may start to like me - but there are broader needs than being liked. If one can serve those broader needs and be liked, then that is a perfect situation.
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There is a reason why nearly every government leader who was part of Bush's "coalition" is no longer in office.
They were all tossed out in part because the citizens of those countries wanted nothing more to do with the bullying belligerent war hawkish diplomatic approach of the current US administration.
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I hold our nation in higher regard, I don't agree with your assessment of what we have done in the past 8 years. Standing up for what is right is not bullying, not belligerent, not war hawkish. Doing what others are afraid to do is an example of courage in my book.
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 04 : 12 : 12-----
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Originally Posted by ratbastid
ace, it's continually surprising to me how much you don't see "us versus them" as one possible view of the world, but instead subscribe to it fully as The Truth. It's The Truth that your government has been feeding you. It's not The Truth.
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I clearly see the "us versus them". I give examples of what I think is true and how it may be out of sync with the rest of the world, let's say we disagree - but to suggest I am blindly accepting some false truth fed to me simply is a refusal to address issues. It is subterfuge. It is an example of what I alluded to earlier today.
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Maybe what's good for our allies IS good for us.
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I agree. All I said was in some cases it may not be.
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I know--they're over there and we're over here and we're just fundamentally DIFFERENT and SEPARATE, but you might notice that we all live on the same planet and we're all capable of inflicting pain on each other.
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True, but there is no point of self-inflicted pain just to be liked.
-----Added 4/11/2008 at 04 : 23 : 08-----
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Originally Posted by rmarshall
Up here in Canada, when the USA farts, we smell it. Heck, when Detroit and Chicago farts, we get acid rain in the Thousand Islands.
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And Canada has an impact on the US. Do the people in Canada want their leaders to follow the wishes of American politicians just so Canadians will be liked by Americans, or do they want their leaders to do what is in Canada's interest? I think nations are best served and relationships are solidified when both parties are honest about their needs and concerns. If one nation subjugates its interests to another, they will get what they deserve. If I were in Canada I would not tolerate American farts.