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Originally Posted by shakran
1) just. . .stop. . with the socialism crap. No one who's party just approved 850 billion dollars in socialism for Wall Street can whine about whether or not the other candidate has socialist programs. Especially when their party blasted Pelosi for being somehow personally responsible for the failure of the first, cheaper, socialism program that all those wishy washy republicans voted against after listening to her speech.
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Sorry, I did not support the bail out plan. I think we should let some of the failing institutions fail. Then on the other hand I think the government is actually investing in assets that have value and assets that can actually generate a positive return on investment. This is different than "spreading the wealth around".
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2) There seems to be a prevailing attitude in this country that we want pollution to go away, but we don't want to change anything about our lifestyle to do it.
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Perhaps you should speak for yourself. I know that some of the things I do will produce "pollutants", I am comfortable with taking steps to reduce pollutants but I don't pretend to think that in my life time that I will live in a manner that creates no "pollutants". And I think the impact of the "pollutants" I cause are greatly exaggerated. This is what I believe and I act according to what I believe. What do you believe and how do you act? I am guessing your beliefs are different than mine but your lifestyle and amount of "pollutants" you create are about the same as me.
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That's the sort of attitude I'm pretty used to hearing from six year olds. I expect better from adults.
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I expect adults to understand the consequences of their actions. What are the costs of Obama's environmental plans? You don't know do you? Do you think Obama knows? Do you think he will tell us?
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I understand the tradeoffs. We have fucked up the environment for over 100 years.
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Our environment is not "fucked up". Our environment is cleaner today than it was 40 years ago. How do you define "fucked up"?
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Now it's getting ready to bite us in the ass. Current studies say that if we don't drastically slash pollution in 5 to 7 years, the climate change will be irreversible.
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Irreversible? I wonder if the scientist you did that study put into perspective the entire history of this planet? We are nowhere near the climate extremes this planet has existed through.
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So let's see. . . $20 more per month on my electric bill, or catastrophic global environmental collapse. Not a real tough choice, really, unless you're gambling that you'll be dead before that happens, and don't give a shit about future generations. What's it gonna be?
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Is $20 the cost per month to save the planet?
Consider my questions rhetorical, I get the points being made here by you and others.