View Single Post
Old 10-17-2008, 11:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
bem
Upright
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthetiq View Post
sure animals would understand something like a 28 day cycle where more nocturnal predators would be out hunting because other animals were out in larger numbers because it was easier to see. So if there was intelligence in the animal you'd peg it to the number 28?
Thanks for this post.
I suggest we use the matrix model I showed (nothing to do with the movie, but with the artificial matrix of number obsessions and the natural source of our counting systems, the 10 fingers)
Now, what natural cycles in nature, which we can define with numbers and days, are there ?
We got many.
We got the "sun cycles", basically, the day and the year.
This affects nature a lot, we get light and darkness periods, we get seasons, we also get basic counting.
We got the "moon cycles", (day/night semi-cycle of appearing/disappearing, but still in a different manner every day/night, relative to the steady SUN) and a more basic lunar-moon-month cycle, with effects of new-moon/full-moon, and tides, and a correlation to many other natural cycles in nature, such as the human female menstrual cycle.
Other cycles, are also according to the planets, and the constellations.
There are about 7 classical planets, each with some uniqueness attributed to it in each day on the week, showing some possible correlation to nature (like each one of them is closest to the sun, relatively, for Earth's viewpoint, and also the Sun is seen as moving through different "background of stars" as seen from earth, which is divided to 12 or 13 constellations, usually, in according to the cycle of the moon, originally.
(Hebrew new moon is always a new month, and many celebrations are in the middle of the month, on the full moon, The Hebrew calender goes by the moon and the sun, thus using a 12 months years, with a 13 moon year every few of years, on a fixed cycle, causing the same holidays to appear always in the same seasons and in the same moon-phase)
Some basic astrological FACTs we can show so far:
It's possible to assume that people that are born in the summer are somewhat statistically different from those that are born in the winter-time.
It's possible to assume that the summer is hotter and the winter is cold and rainy, in the northern hemisphere, almost always, and this seems to be the way it goes forever, even with possible "pole shifting" (think about it if you need to).

Now, what happens with calenders and other artificial (human-made) number-usings ?
You use a counting system based on 10 fingers.
The intelligence you referred to in the above-mentioned-animal, will be activated not by "counting 28's", but by this possible "analogy to counting in the animal kingdom":
- I count much light in night, so I go to hunt
- I count much animals I can eat, so I know it's good to do it. (possibility, the first is enough of course for most predators, and other animals that are attracted to light, with bugs being a common example, which could be widely and wisely used by the predators)
- I count less light in night, and then more light at night and then less and then more, so I know the the more I reach the maximum, I should be in the place where I saw most animals, and I should come closer to it, if I see the light-night is getting stronger each-"day", and in the maximum-light-night I'm going to be there for sure. Mmm, maybe I should convince others that my counting is good, I might yell and houl in full moon to convince my fellow predators that it's the numerological-feeding-time.
- If I had intelligence I would build a calender to make us all go together to hunt on full moon without having to shout and scream about it, but I have 16 fingers on 4 limbs, so I will count this cycle of feeding-time differently from animals who don't hunt, don't believe the full moon affect nature as I do, don't feed at night but do other things at night that they can see better under the moon, stand on 2 legs, use 10 fingers, 5 of them usually more than others, and 1 finger in each hand is opposite to the others, and they don't seem to have a tail on themselves to count with.

Interesting to add:
The cycle of the week/weekend is believed to be of a religious biblical source and not of normal nature. It is nice to see that the name for Saturday, both in English and in Hebrew, shows a linguistic connection to the planet of Saturn (Shabtai in Hebrew, Saturday is Shabat, or Sabbath in English translation of the concept)
(The classical list of planets is obviously "not accurate enough", since they count the sun and the moon (reflected in the western calender as Sunday and Monday, and only other 5 planets, but this might be also corresponding to some natural-effect-of-the-universe as seen from earth, and also corresponds to the 28-days moon cycle, dividing it to 4 basic halves (one half, and then another half of each half, I don't divide the moon cycles to thirds, but to halves, and I get a pretty good correspondence to new-moon, half-moon, full-moon, half-moon, which is also in according with cycles of sex, since the cycles of sex are affected by moon-periods, and by weekends, in some way that can naturally reflect our "forgotten" full-moon-hunting-obsessions,

Quote:
Numbers are just a representation of something. Sure there are some cultures that are very wary of numbers, but there are many that are not at all. I'd say that numerical fears are passed on via nurture since there is no rational reason for nature to pass it on.
Doesn't have to be "nurture" per se.
Calenders are, as you said, numbers that represent something, or a numero-system of time of a year. And when you represent the number of the calender based on a counting system of 10-fingers, that can cause "possible fears, not directly connected to nurture".

When are we afraid of dates ?
1.
When money is involved, usually without any connection to Nature. we get our salaries and pay our taxes on a money-calender, and it can cause some fears about it.
2.
When the year is getting close to its end.
Many people feel that "wow, time goes by so fast, I don't notice this, hey, I'm getting older, could it be 2008 already ?"
Nothing really connected to nature, but to the representations of numbers (some are more depressed on the winter anyway, of course, but some calenders end in the summer and causes a "ending effect" without the possible winter-depression.
Different "human made calender" also can cause us fears:
The school year calender is quite artificial and fixed, and causes many possible fears, like when the vacation is Ending.
Many things in society go by an artificial calender: TV broadcasts on specific seasons and precise hours, "work-calender" "tax-year-calender" "birthday-calender" "school calender" "dead-lines-calender" "reviews calender", and so forth.
Also, when the mayan calender is over, some fears can be created, and as shown above, fears about the end of time, are (in 3 main cultures) with complete symbolic analogy to the fear/faiths of the end of the year-calender (of the same culture).
3.
When dates remind us of things we fear, or if specific dates "succeed" to frighten us. or if specific dates cause people to do "bad stuff" (more, statistically), as if they are in a full-moon-hunt.
All this Reminding, and possible outbreaks, are all using the artificial way we represent dates, an artificial representations of time, always using some 10-fingers-counting-side-effects, even if it is built as much as possible to conform to the natural cycles of the year / moon / week / day / rest-of-nature, and even when counting hours and minutes and seconds, with artificial models built on previous artificial models:
24 hours a day, on two 12 cycles of numbers, as the day is the "sun cycle", and the sun-cycle is connected to 12-moons-possibility, and is more easily handled, humanly-fingerly-digitally-mathematically, than a 13-hours cycles
60 minutes and 60 seconds show both the X0 pattern of 10-digits-systems, and is also connected to 12, as it is 12 * 5 (we have 5 fingers), and contains the 6 digits, which is half of 12 (I already now 5 is half of 10 with my fingers, and I think half is more important than third, because I divide my 10 fingers to two hands, when counting, not to 3 hands, and I also think that multiplying by 5 is more easily understood, when you have 5 fingers in each hand, and not 3, or 4, or some kind of difference between the number of toes and fingers)

Yes, I appreciate the Mayan-2012 people who aspire to using a calender that is more according to nature.
But you don't need to replace one artificial calender with another one. (you can say it's not artificial and designed by a divine entity, but you can't understand and use it without using your basic models of counting with 10 fingers, or without models of counting using the basic 10-counting model).
If freedom from time is what you want, after 2012 my theory shows time will be less dangerous and less charming, as far as human-destruction and charm go.
If freedom from your calender is what you want, that consider that a freedom from A calender is what you want.
If a natural cycle calender is what you want, just look at nature directly,
If a natural-based calender is what you want, all calender are naturally based somehow, and the basic naturals things about it are:
Earth, Sun, Moon, Day, Month, Year, Week, and a 10-fingers-human.
If you think the western calender should be replaced because it bad, and evil, and enforcing unnatural structures, please note that after 2012, it will be less "evil", less "charming", and thus, "less composing unnatural numbers".

(for all those who forgot or don't know: "Digit" originally means "Finger", check it out)
bem is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360