Quote:
Originally Posted by Stare At The Sun
Ah ignorance.
I'm not privileged.
I worked throughout HS.
I'm very much in debt for my student loans.
Went for over a year without health insurance despite having asthma.
I simply understand that capitalism is the only moral form of economics.
It rewards those who help society, by helping themselves.
And that's how it should be.
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exactly my point. it lets me and my peergroup sit back and enjoy the fruits of everyone else's labour.
-----Added 15/10/2008 at 03 : 43 : 18-----
i guess i should have shown my opinion more. im not speaking in favour of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stare At The Sun
It rewards those who help society, by helping themselves.
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this is what i was getting at.
what have i and my white-fence bretheren done for anybody to earn huge kickbacks? oh yea. we're white. and our parents have money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
To think that socialism encourages laziness is as fallacious as assuming that the logical
conclusion of conservatism is fascism.
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and this is where you are wrong.
there's no laziness created and facilitated by socialism? I didn't work a day in my life
until after my second year of university.
this is not an outlier.
i don't give a shit about medical costs. FREE MONEY.
all the money i earn from work goes towards hi-tech gadgets and liquor. talk about
privelege. (see; 95% of university students). there's paralells here to the debt crisis in
the US. people getting things they cannot afford.
or, see all the folks receiving welfare because they "don't want to work" (i can personalyl
name about 4... in similar economic and social upbringing as myself)
however, the suggestiong to "Get a job!" is unpatriotic, cruel, heartless... crass... yadda
yadda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
What's interesting is that these, for the most part, are featured
prominently on the social democratic platform of Canada's NDP party.
So you support these socialist initiatives? (Mind you, some of these are more socialist than
others, depending on the approach.) Or do you mean to have these things privatized and paid
for completely out of the users' pockets? (As opposed to their being fully or partially
funded by the government.)
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great. give more money to young mothers and let them know that screwing up and undertaking
child rearing when they are fiscally incapable is A-OK by me! Go ahead, take my money!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
And that is my point for these types of people, there is no incentive to work harder,
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all my hippie friends scoff at me when we pass a 'homeless person' on the street (1 of the 5
that have been in the same place for years) and i don't give them change.
i'm not being unsympathetic. but this kind of thing just encourages it.
Hey! it's okay! You'll get by begging for change! That's all you'll ever do!
Granted there are some people who "have no bootstraps at all"
But my god. The idea of telling someone to "get a job" is the most charitable thing one can
do. Hey, what about that work placement program down the street I worked at for a summer
when I was out of money, in debt and a few days away from missing another rent payment. Get
paid that day! Work guaranteed! No barriers to work (hats and boots and uniforms included!)
yea.
i guess it's just easier to make people feel guilty and get paid for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
well, ace, i would counter that with a simple claim: your ability to
have wealth is contingent on a broader social system which enabled you to acquire the
dispositions and background required to get to that place, and your ability to enjoy that
wealth is contingent on a minimal level of social stability and so you woe much to that
system and what manages to keep it operational. so if there's a stealing involved, it'd
follow from your relation to the redistribution of wealth.
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Now prove, how in any way someone like my father has any debt to pay to anybody? Born in
the 50s when a great many people were and as a result, followed along similar
economic/social paths. Don't go blaming this on race or place of birth because that is
purely circumstantial. Luck of the draw is not basis for stealing.
Got a job when he was a teenager, supported himself the entire time and ended up saving up
to buy a house/raise a family. And the government has the right for some reason to go "NOPE,
THAT'S OURS HA HA HA"
the ability to have wealth?
broader social conditions?
social stability?
you talk in more rhetoric a first year text book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
i am pleased to see the "free market" ideology, and its ultra-right variant in
anarcho-conservative "libertarian" thinking being pulverized by events unfolding in the
world.
nothing good comes of it, not even for the ideologues who carry shit for this way of
thinking: the folk who benefit do not in the main believe, otherwise they would not benefit
as they do. a world of chumps presents itself, and in a world of chumps who think
themselves other than chumps, the only sane move is to take what you can get and get out.
"these idiots cannot run a coherent system. they don't even see that there is one."
.
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i don't see the "pulverization" of libertarian thinking. because we haven't seen anything
even close to real libertarianism.
same for the free market. We've had echoes of a free market. Warped modulated "free"
markets. Talk about the dangers of market distortions and pseudo free markets, sure. Do not
make a judgement on that which has not occurred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3
On the general question of morality and re-distribution of
wealth, I look at it this way. It is not immoral to be wealthy. It is immoral to steal.
Taking a persons wealth to keep or to give to someone else is stealing. People do not
volunteer to be taxed for the purpose of re-distribution, it happens under the threat of the
loss of freedom (jail time) or at gun point (confiscation of property by authorities).
People will volunteer to pay taxes for schools/training, short-term welfare needs and other
measures to help people succeed. I have a very libertarian view on this issue and I don't
think it is complicated.
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this should be the end of the thread.
it is simple.
taking my money does not help me.
and it does not help you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid
You respond from inside the box you're in because it's the only
place you have to respond from. You'd have to be outside the box to SEE the box, which would
be the only way to get out of the box.
If this seems like a koan to you.... good.
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excellent strawman in addressing
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dunedan
Funny how "evil" Capitalism is predicated upon mutually beneficial voluntary exchange, while
"good" Communism or Socialism is based on threatening to blow someone's face off.
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people are so afraid of being given choice, of risking the dangers of the real world that they demand the government coerce them.