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Supple Cow · 10-07-2008, 08:35 PM

You see the only negative as "reducing the variety of life" but you also conspicuously say that you "feel" heteronormative and that you "feel" homosexuality is unnatural. Well, there's your answer. You just admitted that your argument is based on what you "feel" to be the way things should be. I am telling you that there is no one way that things should be, no matter how small or insignificant it may be.

By 'ignorance' in this case, I am referring to the inability to put oneself in someone else's position. Some people are born without this ability or with a very deficient amount of it - these people have some form of autism. Other people stubbornly resist mentally putting themselves in another's position because it makes them uncomfortable. Either way, the result is the same. Cockamamie "solutions" to the world's conflicts that sound all too rational but are ultimately based on some feeling or notion that 'my way is the best way' (or, even worse, the only way).

As for your assertion that not reproducing hurts the evolution of the species, I will simply give you two things to think about: (1) what about infertile men and women and those couples who choose not to reproduce? (2) The world is actually overpopulated and we aren't doing such a good job as a species of preserving our habitat. Think about various parasitic organisms and how the most successful ones are good at reproducing but not too good, since the ones that reproduce too fast end up killing their hosts and then dying out anyway. Is that quantitative enough for you to understand?

The other point you make about eliminating discrimination is not as positive as you might think, and this is directly related to the baby in the bath water saying. The saying is about how when you are trying to get rid of undesirable things (like dirty bath water), you ought to be careful not to toss out the good things with them (like the baby you bathed in that water). Is this making any sense yet? I don't disagree that reducing discrimination is a positive thing. I am telling you that removing a whole kind of people is not the way to achieve it.

Your whole argument smacks of 'the ends justify the means' but even the end you suggest is unrealistic and solipsistic. There has been discrimination at every time in history against one kind of person or another. Discrimination will never be over. A purely quantitative argument cannot even begin to address the human factor (which is why I have largely been ignoring your simplistic argument up until now and trying to address the big picture). All we can do is try to keep up with evolving cultures and accept each other for what we are. You seem to think that preventing more homosexual or bisexual people from being born will solve some kind of problem you perceive, but there are many people on this planet who do derive happiness from homosexuality and yours is not the only viewpoint. Given that, can you justify taking that aspect away from society as a whole?

10-07-2008, 08:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
Supple Cow Americow, the Beautiful Location: Washington, D.C.	You see the only negative as "reducing the variety of life" but you also conspicuously say that you "feel" heteronormative and that you "feel" homosexuality is unnatural. Well, there's your answer. You just admitted that your argument is based on what you "feel" to be the way things should be. I am telling you that there is no one way that things should be, no matter how small or insignificant it may be. By 'ignorance' in this case, I am referring to the inability to put oneself in someone else's position. Some people are born without this ability or with a very deficient amount of it - these people have some form of autism. Other people stubbornly resist mentally putting themselves in another's position because it makes them uncomfortable. Either way, the result is the same. Cockamamie "solutions" to the world's conflicts that sound all too rational but are ultimately based on some feeling or notion that 'my way is the best way' (or, even worse, the only way). As for your assertion that not reproducing hurts the evolution of the species, I will simply give you two things to think about: (1) what about infertile men and women and those couples who choose not to reproduce? (2) The world is actually overpopulated and we aren't doing such a good job as a species of preserving our habitat. Think about various parasitic organisms and how the most successful ones are good at reproducing but not too good, since the ones that reproduce too fast end up killing their hosts and then dying out anyway. Is that quantitative enough for you to understand? The other point you make about eliminating discrimination is not as positive as you might think, and this is directly related to the baby in the bath water saying. The saying is about how when you are trying to get rid of undesirable things (like dirty bath water), you ought to be careful not to toss out the good things with them (like the baby you bathed in that water). Is this making any sense yet? I don't disagree that reducing discrimination is a positive thing. I am telling you that removing a whole kind of people is not the way to achieve it. Your whole argument smacks of 'the ends justify the means' but even the end you suggest is unrealistic and solipsistic. There has been discrimination at every time in history against one kind of person or another. Discrimination will never be over. A purely quantitative argument cannot even begin to address the human factor (which is why I have largely been ignoring your simplistic argument up until now and trying to address the big picture). All we can do is try to keep up with evolving cultures and accept each other for what we are. You seem to think that preventing more homosexual or bisexual people from being born will solve some kind of problem you perceive, but there are many people on this planet who do derive happiness from homosexuality and yours is not the only viewpoint. Given that, can you justify taking that aspect away from society as a whole? __________________ "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." (Michael Jordan)