bem

To TheJazz:
Thanks for this list.
Let me answer you as much as I can.
Asian Tsunami is a natural disaster, not a human-made-destruction.
According to my theory, numbers affect people, not Nature.
I suspect most natural disasters in history are affected by other issues of time.
I wouldn't be surprised if more "bad-stuff" happens in the summer than in the winter at some place, or if there are more wars in the summer, because people fight more in the heat, but other than that, I don't think we can see how "time affects nature enough to create natural disasters in specific patterns of dates".
If anyone knows of many major such disasters on such dates, please let me know.
The St. V Day massacre is a gang-related outbreak in Chicago with 7 people dead.
It's not anywhere close to a National day of Destruction, like the 9/11/2001 or the murder of Kennedy.
Pearl Harbor, Sino Japanese war and Hiroshima are all connected to the Japansse people, who are not really connected to the western calender.
A Muslim Terrorist in our days is much more affected by the western calender than the Japanese of the first half of the century. The Japanese Empire held for about 2600 years until WW2, never conquered by the west, and as such were quite separate from the rest of the world as far as symbols and language and religion and calenders go.
What is a greater destruction date ? start of ww2 ? pearl harbor ? or Hiroshima and nagasaki that actually finished the war for the Americans, and for those Americans who lived than it was, "the time the war is over", "the end of global destruction",
and as much as horrible as those bombing were, and I'm anti-nuclear as most of us, the rational behind the bombings was pretty much "how to stop this never ending destruction once and for all right now", not "how to cause destruction per se".
Now as far as seeing 9 and 11 in dates, my standards are just generalizations.
look at 12.7.1941
No 11, but three separate 1's. repetitions of 1 can easily become an 11.
(if I can see it, so can others...., if you "look" for 9/11s, where do you see more ? 23.7.1941, or 12.7.1941 ?
The same goes for:
2.14.1929
minds that look for patterns can tell themselves of this date easily:
"hey, two 2's two 1's and two 9's", and already the 9/11 combo is more conscious, for some of them.
This seems like numerology, so let me explain it like this:

We can explain all the phenomenon using Pareidolia:
pareidolia is "clinically defined" as looking for patterns and seeing patterns where none exist, like faces in the rain, and animals in the clouds, and so forth.
we can also define it in terms of numbers, without the "clinical" consideration, considering the option that some meaning might be there after all:
Number-pareidolia, is about looking for such patterns in numbers.
Dates-Number-pareidolia is about such patterns in numbers of dates.
Numerology is about giving numbers a meaning which is not a mathematical meaning.
(compare "4 means love" to "4 is not prime", both can be seen as result of basic number-pareidolia processes)

Now let's look at the 9/11 and 2012 obsessions with these definitions:
Let's think about this like this:
It is Pareidolia.
All over the world people try to find their number connections using pareidolia, some more, some less, some always, some never.
If humans associate destruction with numbers only using pareidolia, after a few thousand years, you can have two options:
1. If some numbers are indeed more connected to destruction for the mind, globally, they will appear in more cases of pareidolia. If those numbers are not connected to a specific language, they will appear in more cases of pareidolia in different cultures with different language and with different calenders.
2. If all numbers are equally subject to pareidolia as far as destruction goes,
people will find it hard to agree on any set of numbers.

Now, what does the process of pareidolia want to accomplish ?
It wants to give a symbolic meaning to a number.
Let's look at a peridoliac person from the outside.
He tells you "4's makes me love things, 4 is all about love for me, all the girls I loved had so much 4's in their names and lives" and so on.
He says: 4 symbolizes love. (and he can add: to me, to you, to everyone, to our people, to men, for now at least, and so on, while the common to all saying, is giving a symbolic meaning to a number, which is not a mathematical meaning).
All over the world, all cases of pareidolia, are trying to do that.
Now, if a 9/11 combo somehow means destruction for enough people.
(This could be very subtle, even if out of 100 cases, only 5 are 9/11 combos, if it's the most common combo in the list, it's the one with the most accumulating affect, over thousands of years)
what will happen with a "natural" process of pareidolia ?
The symbol will be more accepted as a symbol of destruction.
Right now, the 9/11 concept is a symbol of destruction in the language, and in more than one calender.
From all possible pariedolia going on, that's the one that convinced most people to see some symbolic connection, consciously, between a 9/11 combo in the year, and with destruction.
Nobody forces you to fear the combo, or to look for it, or any other pareidolic activity, but it forces you to see what is the accepted meaning of the combo in language, if you wish to understand language like others.
How does this match the nowadays ?
Why is from all dates of destruction only the 9.11 is remembered with the date, and with the combo ? why is there so much pareidolia about it than ever before ? why can't we explain the 2012 obsessions saying that in this period of time, dates are more charming than ever which causes a specific stream of pareidolia, if we can somehow define charm ?

To grolsch:
This might even apply to you more.
If i have 9 fingers, 11 fingers, 9.5 fingers and so forth, I'm more aware that I'm not a perfect 10, and might be more aware to the fact that people associates 10 with perfection, and also maybe more stressed, when I'm reminded "10 maybe perfect but it's not how it is for me right now"
I'm not accusing you of anything.
But please, testify for yourself.
If you have 9+7/8s fingers from childhood, or from another point in time, did you ever see some clear connection between "10 is perfect", and "not 10 but close to it, reminds me of imperfection" ?


To QuasiMondo and tisonlyi and everyone:
As far as I know, the Mayan calender, or, more correctly, the different versions of the different Mayan calenders, don't state in the calender the end of the world, they simply end.
If you use a circular counting system, (unlike the christian counting which could go on forever mathematically, but like the Hebrew one), your calender ends sometime.
It's usually a long cycle, always long enough in history for "never ending while the culture using it is still a living culture"
Even if it's not a circular calender, it can use cycles, like any other calender.
In the normal count, the dates' digits are circular, and so are the months', only the years go in a linear way.
If I create a practical Christan calender for the next 1000 years, it will end sometime (in a 1000 years), because I only used a cycle of a 1000 years, which I could use again and again as the same calender, for the next 1000 years, I just didn't see a reason to put more than 3 digits in the year.
When we reach 10000, if we still use this counting, we could go in 2 directions:
Either starting to use 5-digits years, which will change the calender in the practical sense (think of computers all regarding years with 4 digits)
or we will simply ignore the initial 1, and keep writing (and talking) about a 4 digit concept, with all of us in perfect understanding, without a sense of change of calender (as might happen it we start thinking about years as a 5-digit-thing). If we go that road, we actually just start the counting all over again from 0 to 9999, actually making the christian counting a circular one which completed a cycle, and we start using it from the beginning again (without forgetting of course that it's the 2nd cycle)
Maybe the Mayan calender(s) is also something like that.
We can Imagine it if we think of it as an "extended-year-calender".
Most use, for practical reasons, a calender for the year alone.
It's a calender that ends, and you use it again (quite the same version), again and again, whenever it ends.
Maybe this is how the Mayan calender goes, it just doesn't end on the year, but on the far far future, in a way that doesn't really frighten anyone, any more than the fears you might feel when the year's calender is over.
Actually, all the possible psychological fears of "the year is changing, the end of the calender seems like some kind of an end to me", will not happen in a Mayan calender, where the symbolic emphasis of the End, is in the far far future, not in every year.
Maybe this is the price to be paid
The Mayans perhaps fear less when the year is over, because they have a very different understanding of "when time/calender ends", so they don't have to celebrate the changing of each year with Light and Trees and Family-Love and other versions of Christmas, which potentially decrease the global "fear", but on the other hand, when their calender finally ends, all accumulated fears of the End, are all focused at a one ending point.
And maybe some kind of Ritual, is finally needed.

(If Christmas is when Christian celebrate the birth of Christ on their version of the main ritual which is connected to the the year changing / ending in the calender, then what is the analogy now that the Mayan's ending ? do we need a bigger celebration in this bigger End ? Could this explain some more-Christ-Is-Coming beliefs-?
This doesn't have to be because the Mayan calender ends.
As I showed, the Christian counting is the one changing in 2012 in its affect. This is a kind of End in the Christian calender itself. So should we be more anxious for redemption, more believing that now is the time of his coming to the world, or should we all just try to have the most appropriate Christmas-Celebration-Analogy ?