Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - meanwhile, back in reality (bank crisis round 2)

roachboy · 09-19-2008, 05:56 AM

jorgelito--i'm really not clear on why you impute all these odd motives to what i put up. i've made myself pretty clear--in this context, the only position i see as reasonable is a social-democratic one. this is a mixed economy. trick is that neoliberalism is also a mixed economy--there is no such thing as a "free market" outside the purple prose of ayn rand or the dreams of 18th century political economists---the problem with neoliberals is that they are ideologically and aesthetically opposed to "regulation" so they don't think in those terms---which sets up the incoherent, reactive nonsense you've seen over the past few weeks from the administration--which has intensified an already problematic situation--which was enabled by the administration and its predecessors since reagan.

since markets presuppose regulation, it seems more coherent to think of them in those terms and operate with a perspective that sees in regulation constraints that can be used to direct socio-economic activity---and if you think that way, it becomes easier to address social problems that follow from economic activity. for example, neoliberal-land typically does not even include space for wondering about the relationship between massive consumer debt--of which the shit mortgage problem is but an expression--and the avoidance of the implications of the processes of--say---outsourcing of production. like the good dr bindujeet put it, much of the us is a factory town without the factory at this point. that's not coherent as a social arrangement, that's not coherent as a form of capitalism, and the **only** way it's acceptable is if you think "markets" are like the weather and the consequences of market relations inevitable.

that's delusional, though: if that were true, capitalism would have collapsed by 1870.

it looks like the state is undertaking *both* options: the sec banned shortselling AND there's some theater going on to create the Magic Debt-Absorbing Machine.

more on this later.

09-19-2008, 05:56 AM	#145 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	jorgelito--i'm really not clear on why you impute all these odd motives to what i put up. i've made myself pretty clear--in this context, the only position i see as reasonable is a social-democratic one. this is a mixed economy. trick is that neoliberalism is also a mixed economy--there is no such thing as a "free market" outside the purple prose of ayn rand or the dreams of 18th century political economists---the problem with neoliberals is that they are ideologically and aesthetically opposed to "regulation" so they don't think in those terms---which sets up the incoherent, reactive nonsense you've seen over the past few weeks from the administration--which has intensified an already problematic situation--which was enabled by the administration and its predecessors since reagan. since markets presuppose regulation, it seems more coherent to think of them in those terms and operate with a perspective that sees in regulation constraints that can be used to direct socio-economic activity---and if you think that way, it becomes easier to address social problems that follow from economic activity. for example, neoliberal-land typically does not even include space for wondering about the relationship between massive consumer debt--of which the shit mortgage problem is but an expression--and the avoidance of the implications of the processes of--say---outsourcing of production. like the good dr bindujeet put it, much of the us is a factory town without the factory at this point. that's not coherent as a social arrangement, that's not coherent as a form of capitalism, and the only way it's acceptable is if you think "markets" are like the weather and the consequences of market relations inevitable. that's delusional, though: if that were true, capitalism would have collapsed by 1870. it looks like the state is undertaking both options: the sec banned shortselling AND there's some theater going on to create the Magic Debt-Absorbing Machine. more on this later. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite