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Slims · 08-04-2008, 12:02 PM

Ok, I will do my best.

First, I am a libertarian, but the libertarian party itself is poorly organized, fractured, and full o fproblems.

For me, rights are inalienable because though a government may not recognize them, they are the essential freedoms a person must have in order to be sovereign, or truly responsible for theirselves. I also believe that suppression of those rights is an essential element of any oppressive government.

As far as private property is concerned, I personally feel it stems from being able to keep the fruits of your own labor. If there were no private property, and willravel worked very hard to have a nice garden, the lazy masses who wanted fresh vegetables without the bother of growing them could take as they please, leaving nothing for the producer. The extension to property (not necessarily land) is easy...if you work to generate the resources necessary to produce, purchase, or otherwise acquire something, nobody else should be able to take it from you because 'they need it more.'

I know some very early societies, and some modern primitives dont' believe in private property. However, you don't see this in modern society as it simply isn't a successful strategy. When everyone shares everything, the people who work the hardest and are most productive are unable to realize additional gains over their neighbors. There is no incentive to go the extra mile as the person who doesn't will get to enjoy the results without the effort.

I work extremely hard, to include being shot at, in order to put a roof over my head, etc. and I believe very strongly that nobody is more entitled to the fruits of my labor than I am.

Libertarians (excepting the extremists that are present in any party) don't believe in no government, just small government, with money spent only on those things that are of vital importance to the nation. For instance, the postal service, military, core services, congress, etc. It is largely up to the individual to interpret what is meant by *essential*.

A great example of this is socialized medicine. The libertarian philosophy is that individuals are far better able to choose what is right for them than the government is. If you want healthcare, then you are better off paying for it directly and getting exactly what you want than paying through taxes for a cumbersome, expensive, unresponsive federal version. Can't afford healthcare but want it? Then get a better job because using tax dollars stolen from someone else is income redistribution at best and is, in my opinion, far closer to outright theft and extortion (since the goverment doesn't leave you any choice.) The libertarian utopia is a society where everyone is responsible for everything they do, and the government is the bare minimum to maintain order and the sovereignty of the nation. However, much like every other 'ideal' I can think of, it isn't something that could ever actually work. But it doesn't mean we wouldn't benefit from taking a few huge steps in that direction.

Oh, to touch on the environment real quick: Just as it would be reasonable to stop a company from spewing cyanide gas into the air and killing off a local town, it is reasonable for the government to pass laws which protect it's citizens. Reasonable environmental safeguards are perfectly fine, so long as they will protect PEOPLE. Saving a wood toad (or insert some insignificant but endangered animal) is not normally justifiable unless the lost of that creature would have a clearly definable negative impact on peoples lives (like cutting down the last tree on ester island). Otherwise it's just natural selection at work.

08-04-2008, 12:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Ok, I will do my best. First, I am a libertarian, but the libertarian party itself is poorly organized, fractured, and full o fproblems. For me, rights are inalienable because though a government may not recognize them, they are the essential freedoms a person must have in order to be sovereign, or truly responsible for theirselves. I also believe that suppression of those rights is an essential element of any oppressive government. As far as private property is concerned, I personally feel it stems from being able to keep the fruits of your own labor. If there were no private property, and willravel worked very hard to have a nice garden, the lazy masses who wanted fresh vegetables without the bother of growing them could take as they please, leaving nothing for the producer. The extension to property (not necessarily land) is easy...if you work to generate the resources necessary to produce, purchase, or otherwise acquire something, nobody else should be able to take it from you because 'they need it more.' I know some very early societies, and some modern primitives dont' believe in private property. However, you don't see this in modern society as it simply isn't a successful strategy. When everyone shares everything, the people who work the hardest and are most productive are unable to realize additional gains over their neighbors. There is no incentive to go the extra mile as the person who doesn't will get to enjoy the results without the effort. I work extremely hard, to include being shot at, in order to put a roof over my head, etc. and I believe very strongly that nobody is more entitled to the fruits of my labor than I am. Libertarians (excepting the extremists that are present in any party) don't believe in no government, just small government, with money spent only on those things that are of vital importance to the nation. For instance, the postal service, military, core services, congress, etc. It is largely up to the individual to interpret what is meant by essential. A great example of this is socialized medicine. The libertarian philosophy is that individuals are far better able to choose what is right for them than the government is. If you want healthcare, then you are better off paying for it directly and getting exactly what you want than paying through taxes for a cumbersome, expensive, unresponsive federal version. Can't afford healthcare but want it? Then get a better job because using tax dollars stolen from someone else is income redistribution at best and is, in my opinion, far closer to outright theft and extortion (since the goverment doesn't leave you any choice.) The libertarian utopia is a society where everyone is responsible for everything they do, and the government is the bare minimum to maintain order and the sovereignty of the nation. However, much like every other 'ideal' I can think of, it isn't something that could ever actually work. But it doesn't mean we wouldn't benefit from taking a few huge steps in that direction. Oh, to touch on the environment real quick: Just as it would be reasonable to stop a company from spewing cyanide gas into the air and killing off a local town, it is reasonable for the government to pass laws which protect it's citizens. Reasonable environmental safeguards are perfectly fine, so long as they will protect PEOPLE. Saving a wood toad (or insert some insignificant but endangered animal) is not normally justifiable unless the lost of that creature would have a clearly definable negative impact on peoples lives (like cutting down the last tree on ester island). Otherwise it's just natural selection at work. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence Last edited by Slims; 08-04-2008 at 12:07 PM..