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Originally Posted by shesus
This type of thinking is flawed also. There are many hardworking people who get bad breaks. You can't blanket people. Also, the thinking that people are lazy and making poor choices, therefore they deserve to suffer and not receive decent health care is something I can't wrap my head around. Maybe I am more empathic than some. I feel that as a society, we put too much stress on working hard and working long. Work and you can get anything. I call bullshit on that notion. I would prefer to enjoy living. And those dead end high school education jobs you speak of, they are needed people in society. Where would you go to eat, shop, etc?
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I understand that there are a goodly number of people who fall by the wayside because bad luck, but there are also many who actively choose to be shitbags, and I have no sympathy for them. We have governmental programs that provide aid to those who do work their asses off and still can't make ends meet. As much as I'd like to say that they shouldn't and everyone should be responsible for themselves, I also think unemployment aid and medicaid are perfectly reasonable compromises for either extreme. I do not like the notion of rewarding those who refuse to help themselves.
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Originally Posted by shesus
I'm curious as to how much interaction you've had with people in these situations. I don't say that as an attack, but you seem to have a lot of prejudiced notions. I know this because about 5 years ago, I would have agreed with you. However, after working in inner cities and volunteering at food pantries, my eyes were opened. While there will be deadbeats and people working the system, that is not how everyone is. There is a generational problem that is deeper than that. There are medical bills that causes people to lose everything. Then there are people who want to work, but actually make more getting welfare.
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Fair enough. I went to public school my entire childhood in Los Angeles, CA. My middle school and high school both bused kids in from all over the city, and my high school was located in the middle of Van Nuys, a largely hispanic and lower middle class/ upper lower class, both parents work menial jobs to support their families kind of neighborhood. I had friends from all walks of life. I'll be honest, I was probably among the most affluent of my friends, but I don't think that it mattered. And while there were some who chose to make something of themselves, there were plenty of others in my class of 581 who did not and work dead end jobs, got locked up, got strung out, or are simply cruising through life with the least effort possible.
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Originally Posted by shesus
I agree with Jess. I don't believe socialized medicine will occur here for a long time, if ever. There are too many problems in our current system. To continue education after high school is very expensive and must be compensated after graduation with a decent wage. Also, people have a bitter feeling toward government subsidies. There are many proud Americans. It has been seen in this thread. We are a boot-strap nation and to accept any help is seen as a sign of weakness. Change needs to start within the people's perceptions followed by education. If this can occur, there may be hope for a change to help citizens.
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I don't think that taking a government hand-out is seen with as much disdain as it used to be. I know plenty of people who will take money from wherever it comes from, and see welfare as just another way of getting paid. This seems to be predominantly in inner-city communities among single parent homes, and among the black community. I know, I'll probably be deemed a racist for saying it, but there it is.
I've also known plenty of people too proud to accept hand-outs. Mainly among my buddies who were first-generation immigrants from Mexico et al, who would rather scrap and survive and build themselves up on their own merit rather than somebody else's.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that somebody's socio-economic status is largely dependent upon their attitude and the choices they make in life. While luck plays a large part of it, I don't think that everyone is poor simply because they had a run of bad luck; and therefore government programs should exist for those willing to help themselves. If you refuse to work and contribute to society, then it is unfair and outright selfish for you to expect society to provide you with anything.