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roachboy · 06-16-2008, 07:43 AM

i'm in the process of trying to work out how to think this, hiredgun---and i'm also following the logic of the op i put up, which included the initial warning from george soros about futures trading, institutional investors and the "hoarding" generated (in the eyes of some) by the tactics these funds seem to prefer.
because i'm curious about it, and because the futures market seems of a piece with the transnational currency markets as areas of economic activity beyond the control of the nation-state, i've been focussing a bit on it.

i was looking at some data about production levels, oil supply levels and such over the weekend, but i can't seem to find it at the moment. later perhaps.

i don't think that the futures market is *the* driver, but i think it is am important one, particularly given the influx of large-scale pension/hedge players into the game.

the point is more that these levels are all interconnected, and that this may be a way to see the problems neoliberalism has wrought.

====================================
btw: i dont think the analogy between futures in oil and/or food and real estate holds.
futures is an explicit game. if most of the analyses i have read so far are correct (i've put some links above) the problem is not the futures market per se, but the changes in the rules of the game de facto brought about by the entry of new types of players into it.
driven out of bonds, etc. by things like the subprime crisis and weakness of the dollar no doubt...

on the other hand, i'm trying to figure out when these players started really shifting into futures--i just finished a 2006 piece that seems to have been an important factor in making the futures market more widely available--->

Facts and Fantasies about Commodity Futures. By: Gorton, Gary; Rouwenhorst, K. Geert. Financial Analysts Journal, Mar/Apr2006, Vol. 62 Issue 2, p47-68, 22p

which is interesting in that the language soros (for example) was using seems to have been taken largely from this article's ways of framing futures markets, assimilating their characteristics and possibilities to a readership more accustomed to equities trading, etc etc etc.

but am still looking around for information...

06-16-2008, 07:43 AM	#49 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i'm in the process of trying to work out how to think this, hiredgun---and i'm also following the logic of the op i put up, which included the initial warning from george soros about futures trading, institutional investors and the "hoarding" generated (in the eyes of some) by the tactics these funds seem to prefer. because i'm curious about it, and because the futures market seems of a piece with the transnational currency markets as areas of economic activity beyond the control of the nation-state, i've been focussing a bit on it. i was looking at some data about production levels, oil supply levels and such over the weekend, but i can't seem to find it at the moment. later perhaps. i don't think that the futures market is the driver, but i think it is am important one, particularly given the influx of large-scale pension/hedge players into the game. the point is more that these levels are all interconnected, and that this may be a way to see the problems neoliberalism has wrought. ==================================== btw: i dont think the analogy between futures in oil and/or food and real estate holds. futures is an explicit game. if most of the analyses i have read so far are correct (i've put some links above) the problem is not the futures market per se, but the changes in the rules of the game de facto brought about by the entry of new types of players into it. driven out of bonds, etc. by things like the subprime crisis and weakness of the dollar no doubt... on the other hand, i'm trying to figure out when these players started really shifting into futures--i just finished a 2006 piece that seems to have been an important factor in making the futures market more widely available---> Facts and Fantasies about Commodity Futures. By: Gorton, Gary; Rouwenhorst, K. Geert. Financial Analysts Journal, Mar/Apr2006, Vol. 62 Issue 2, p47-68, 22p which is interesting in that the language soros (for example) was using seems to have been taken largely from this article's ways of framing futures markets, assimilating their characteristics and possibilities to a readership more accustomed to equities trading, etc etc etc. but am still looking around for information... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 06-16-2008 at 07:49 AM..