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Banned
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Originally Posted by scout
Obama to Iran?
Why does he refuse to go over to Iraq and see for himself rather than rely on heresay?
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The short answer, scout, is because making a trip to Iraq, is total fucking waste of Obama's time.
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http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...27/acd.01.html
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Former White House Press Secretary Slams Bush Administration; Obama's World War II Gaffe
Aired May 27, 2008 - 22:00 ET
....Senator McCain has been slamming Obama on his Iraq policy. McCain says Obama is out of touch with what is really happening on the ground in Iraq. Obama paints McCain as, well, simply being out of touch.
Time for a reality check with CNN's Michael Ware live in Baghdad, and, once again, Frances Townsend, former White House homeland security adviser and CNN national security contributor.
Michael, Senator McCain invited Obama to travel to -- to Iraq, saying he was looking for the opportunity to -- quote, unquote -- "educate Obama." Realistically -- I mean, obviously, there's a lot of policy involved. But what exactly would the two be able to see? How accurate is the information that is passed -- how beneficial are these kind of -- these kind of trips?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, I mean, obviously, there's a great need for education about the situation here in Iraq.
You cannot pull out without serious consequences, nor can you stroll the streets of Baghdad. So, there's questions to be raised with both campaigns there.
<h3>Now, like any U.S. officials that come to this country, any campaign members, anyone running for office who comes to this country is going to see the rooftops of houses as they fly over them, perhaps some desert as they whisk over the cop of that, and the inside of U.S. bases and the U.S. Embassy, where they're bombarded with briefings and PowerPoint slides.
They will be totally divorced from the Iraqi reality. And any Iraqi officials they will talk to, they're certainly not going to be straight -shooting. They haven't been since the war began. Why would they start now? It's not in their interests to do so.
They certainly won't get a real feel for the fact that 90,000 former insurgents now on the U.S. payroll are protecting large chunks of the country for America, while other large chunks of the country are protected by Iranian-backed militias who are pursuing Iranian interests, as well as their own.
So, really, it's going to be a very skewed picture that anyone could hope to get -- Anderson. </h3>
COOPER: Frances, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker, says al Qaeda in Iraq -- and I quote -- "has never been closer to defeat than they are now."
At this point, though, how much of the violence is really due to al Qaeda in Iraq, and how much is due to sectarian actors and other forces?
TOWNSEND: Well, Anderson, it's important to be clear about the facts.
All violence, whether it's sectarian or al Qaeda, is down across the board. These are the lowest levels of security incidents in four years that they're seeing right now. This is progress.
Now, al Qaeda has said, in their own statement, that Iraq was the central battle and that they couldn't lose it. Well, they're back on their heels. It will take a sustained effort by Iraqi forces to maintain that. We have seen the recent progress by Iraqi forces. They are conducting clearing and holding operations on their own, without their American advisers. All of this is positive, but they have to do it over the long term. COOPER: Well, I mean, in Basra, they needed serious backup from both British and U.S. forces. In fact, that was really instrumental in turning the tide there in Basra to the degree that it has been turned.
But the question is, I mean, the White House and John McCain and others like to focus on al Qaeda and talk about al Qaeda in Iraq. Do you have a sense of how much al Qaeda is really -- I mean, of a percentage of attacks, how much is al Qaeda? How much are other forces?
TOWNSEND: You know, I'm not really -- I'm not clear on what the actual percentage breakdown is.
COOPER: OK.
TOWNSEND: I will say this to you, though. The large-scale attacks against civilians are down. But the important part to that success is going to be maintaining it.
COOPER: Michael, let me ask you the question. Al Qaeda, compared to the other forces killing folks in Iraq, where does -- what's the percentage; do you know?
WARE: Well, in terms of fighters in the field, they would be lucky to be 2 percent of those carrying weapons in this country, Anderson.
Yes, they're the guys responsible for the spectacular attacks, the suicide bombings and car bombings that just slaughter innocent civilians. That's true. That's got great political impact. But, in terms of the day-to-day grind, they're virtually nonexistent. They're barely attacking U.S. troops. They're more focused on killing other Iraqis. They're too busy trying to launch a war with the Shia. They're too busy, under pressure, to be able to continue operating.
And, look, let's face it. They were given Iraq on a -- on a platter for their next platform after Afghanistan. They had their moment. Now they have been withered down to this gnarly operating series of terrorist cells that they were always designed to be. They're essentially going to be a stone in the shoe of this society. What they are in countless societies across the world.
They're not really the war here, and they haven't been for a long time, if they ever were. The real war here is the competition between America and Iran for influence and an attempt to hold this region together without fracturing it completely, Anderson.
COOPER: Frances, do you agree with Michael?
TOWNSEND: Well, to Michael's point, a successful end to the conflict in Iraq must be that Iraq is a stable democracy that can secure its people and its borders. That includes not only from al Qaeda but from Iran.
COOPER: Frances, we appreciate you being on the show, first time. Thanks for being on.
Michael Ware, always good to talk to you. Stay safe, Michael. ....
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I posted all of the following shortly after it happened. The contrast of the VIP visits...who had to sneak into Iraq unnannounced in advance, and who was able to make a much more routine, pre-announced visit.
If Cheney and McCain were prisoners of their own security precautions, what would Obama hope to see that he was not meant to see? Would he go off on his own?
The US has lost this, scout. The Iranian president glaringly demonstrated that he is the one who can announce a near normal visit to Iraq, and then experience a near normal visit. He showed that iraq is his....not Cheney and McCain's territory. This is over....the only people who can't see it are the supporters of failed Bush policy.... Obama is not in that camp.
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http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/29212.html
Visit by Iran's president shows depth of Iraq's divisions
By Leila Fadel | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Sunday, March 2, 2008
BAGHDAD — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Sunday became the first Iranian head of state to visit Iraq in three decades and immediately became the focus of demonstrations that underscored Iraq's sectarian split.
In Fallujah, Sunni Muslim protesters demonstrated against his visit, calling him the killer of Iraqi children. Iraq's Sunni vice president showed up late for a reception for Ahmadinejad hosted by Iraq's Kurdish president.
Meanwhile, Iraq's Shiite ruling elite, many of whom had been taken refuge during Saddam Hussein's time in Shiite Iran, listened to Ahmadinejad without need of translation into Arabic, clearly comfortable hearing his Farsi.
American officials stayed far away from the visiting Iranian delegation. At a joint press conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, Ahmadinejad claimed that "Iraqis don't like Americans." Maliki didn't challenge the assertion.
Ahmadinejad's trip was a visible sign of what have been growing economic and cultural ties between the two countries since American-led forces toppled Saddam. Iranian economic investment is growing, especially in southern Iraq, millions of Iranians visit Iraq's holy cities of Najaf and Karbala on religious pilgrimages, and Iraqi officials frequently travel to Tehran and other Iranian cities. Iraq's most influential political party, the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, was founded in Iran.
The visit also was the first by any regional leader since the end of Saddam's rule and while President Bush and British prime ministers also have visited, Ahmadinejad was the first leader to receive the full trappings of a state visit.
He was met at Baghdad International Airport by Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari and Maliki's national security advisor, Mowaffak al Rubaie. He was whisked from the airport in a black BMW to President Jalal Talabani's compound, where a marching band welcomed him with the Iranian and Iraqi national anthems and a series of other marches, including an American one, Colonel Boogie.
Iraqi officials lined up to welcome the visiting president, but the Sunni vice-president, Tarik al Hashemi, was noticeably absent. He appeared about 50 minutes after Ahmadinejad arrived. There was no explanation for his delayed arrival.
No U.S. soldiers were in sight near Talabani's home and security was provided by Kurdish soldiers known as the peshmerga.
At an afternoon press conference with Maliki, Ahmadinejad dismissed longstanding U.S. accusations that Iran trains, funds and arms Shiite militias in hopes of destabilizing Iraq.
"You can tell Mr. Bush that accusing others will increase the problems for America in the region and will not solve the problem," he said. "The Americans have to accept the facts of the region. Iraqi people do not like Americans."
When asked if Iran and Iraq trusted one another, Ahmadinejad took another swipe at the Americans.
"If you look to the two peoples, Iranian and Iraqi, we can see they have a joint history, culture and geography," he said. "If they don't trust each other in spite of all these characteristics in common can they trust countries which are 12,000 kilometers away from Iraq and Iran?"
Maliki welcomed Ahmadinejad and called his visit "the first visit of its kind." He said the visit would "deepen" the relationship between the two nations.
"We believe that there is not stability except through understanding and discussion, " he said.
Iran has long touted its historical, geographic and cultural connection to Iraq as more powerful than the tens of thousands of U.S. troops here. Iranian officials claim that the continued U.S. military presence is the real destabilizing factor.
But Sunni Muslims bristled at Ahmadinejad's visit. In downtown Fallujah, which at one time was the center of the Sunni-dominated insurgency, about 400 people held signs and chanted anti-Iran slogans.
"The teacher's association protest the visit of the Iranian president, killer of Iraqi children," one sign read. Said another, "We demand the Iranian president stop supporting the militias which are killing the Iraqi people." Others accused the group of supporting the Sunni insurgent group, Al Qaida and another accused Iran of stealing Iraqi oil.
<h3>Last week, 500 people demonstrated against the visit in Diyala province, and Arab leaders in Kirkuk rejected the visit in a written statement.</h3>
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Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...q.ahmadinejad/
updated 5:57 p.m. EST, Sun March 2, 2008
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, in Baghdad Sunday for the start of a historic two-day trip, said "visiting Iraq without the dictator is a good thing."
The Shiite-led Iraqi government rolled out the red carpet, literally, for Ahmadinejad as he became the first Iranian president to visit Iraq, a country that was a bitter enemy when Saddam Hussein's Sunni government was in power.
Ahmadinejad, at a joint news conference with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, said the trip "opens a new chapter in bilateral ties with Iraq."
"We have had good talks in a friendly and constructive environment," Ahmadinejad said. "We have the same understanding of things and the two parties are determined to strengthen their political, economic and cultural cooperation."
Later in the day, Ahmadinejad met Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. Both al-Maliki and Talabani have made official trips to Iran since taking office.
At a joint news conference with al-Maliki in Baghdad's Green Zone, Ahmadinejad did not hide his disdain for the United States and its leadership.
"(U.S. President) Bush always accuses others without evidence and this increases problems," Ahmadinejad said. "The Americans have to understand that Iraqi people do not like America." Watch Ahmadinejad comment on the U.S. presence in Iraq »
The United States has accused Iran of supporting some insurgent groups in Iraq, including supplying EFPs, the deadliest and most sophisticated type of roadside bomb.
<h3>Ahmadinejad shunned the security measures followed by many other leaders on visits to Baghdad, riding from Baghdad's airport in a civilian-style sedan -- and not an armored military vehicle or helicopter -- to central Baghdad.
His official welcome and meeting with Talabani was at the presidential house outside of the heavily-fortified International Zone where most high-level events in Baghdad are held.</h3>
Ahmadinejad said a unified and powerful Iraq is in the best interest of Iran and all its neighbors.
"Iraqi people are passing through a critical situation but as we know, the Iraqi people will overcome the situation and the Iraq of tomorrow will be a powerful, developed and unique Iraq," he said.
Ahmadinejad was warmly welcomed in Baghdad. An Iraqi military band played the Iranian and Iraqi national anthems as Ahmadinejad and Talabani stood side-by-side at the end of a long red carpet outside the presidential house. Ahmadinejad then walked down the carpet where he was greeted by two Iraqi children with flowers and a long line of Iraqi officials.
Ahead of his trip, Ahmadinejad said it would "contribute to regional peace and security" and stressed that the people of Iran and Iraq share close bonds.
"My visit to Iraq is to the benefit of all countries, because if there's peace, if we establish peace and put an end to (U.S.) occupation, that will be to the benefit of all countries," the Iranian leader told Tehran-based Press TV before his departure.
Although Iraq invaded Iran in September 1980 after a territorial dispute, and the two countries fought an eight-year war, Ahmadinejad said the nations share a common history.
"The people of Iran and Iraq have close bonds, and there are many holy shrines in Iraq," he said. "People travel there, so we have age-old, historical bonds and common civilization."
He noted that Iraq has a new government, and is an "independent state."
"We should help them," he added.....
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Compare the accounts above of the visit to Iraq by the Iranian president, announced publicly at least a week before his arrival in Iraq. He traveled by unarmored sedan from Baghdad airport, he spent a small amount of time inside the Green Zone, and despite Sunni protests of his visit to Iraq, in other citiies, he slept outside the Green Zone as well.....with the back to back "surprise arrivals to Iraq by McCain and Cheney, "for security reasons", and the heavy security surrounding them, as they spent almost all of their visits inside the Green Zone:
Quote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3941689.shtml
McCain Makes Unannounced Trip To Iraq
BAGHDAD, March 16, 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS/AP) Sen. John McCain, the likely Republican presidential nominee, arrived in Baghdad on Sunday for a visit with Iraqi and U.S. diplomatic and military officials.
The trip by McCain, who has linked his political future to U.S. military success in the nearly five-year-old war, coincided with the 20th anniversary of a horrific chemical weapons attack in northern Iraq.
McCain met with Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh and planned to meet with Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, according to the U.S. Embassy. Further details of McCain's visit, which had been anticipated, were not being released for security reasons, the embassy said.....
...McCain was combative toward reporters' questions in the heavily guarded Green Zone, and responded testily to a question about his comment that it was safe to walk some Baghdad streets. He later acknowledged traveling with armed U.S. military escorts.
Violence has dropped throughout the capital since, with an influx of some 30,000 additional U.S. soldiers sent to Iraq last year. The U.S. military has said attacks have fallen by about 60 percent since last February....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...aq-797144.html
Independent.co.uk
McCain upbeat about war on visit to Iraq
By Patrick Cockburn in Baghdad
Tuesday, 18 March 2008
Helicopter gunships circled overhead and checkpoints choked traffic in the streets, but the US Vice-President, Dick Cheney, and the Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, were in Baghdad yesterday to give upbeat accounts of improving security.
Mr Cheney said he sensed "phenomenal changes" and "dramatic" security gains since he last visited 10 months ago. "I am happy to say," said Mr McCain, "Americans are more and more understanding of the success of this strategy of the surge".
Contrary to these optimistic forecasts, a female suicide bomber blew herself up in the Shia holy city of Kerbala yesterday, killing at least 40 people.
With their heavy security and meetings with Iraqis mostly confined to the Green Zone, it would scarcely have been evident to either American politician that the Iraqi capital is divided into hostile townships of Sunni and Shia. The top US commander General David Petraeus complained last week that security gains had not been matched "by sufficient progress by any means in the area of national reconciliation".
This is scarcely surprising. Paradoxically, it was largely because Sunni and Shia Iraqis had come to hate each other more than they did the Americans that the Sunni insurgents switched sides at the end of 2007. They formed al-Sahwa (the Awakening Councils) and allied themselves with their former American enemies.
They did so because of hostility to al-Qa'ida, but above all because the minority Sunni community was being overwhelmed by the Shia. The formation of the 80,000-strong al-Sahwa militia is the most important reason for the optimism of Mr Cheney and Mr McCain. Armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles, the brown-uniformed militiamen belonging to the movement search cars at the entrance and exit points to Sunni areas.
Mr McCain said yesterday that "al-Qa'ida are on the run, but they are not defeated". But in parts of Baghdad al-Sahwa is often al-Qa'ida in Iraq in a new guise rather than a reaction against it.
"Al-Qa'ida think they can become an official militia through al-Sahwa," said Ibrahim Mohammed Abdullah, 35, an al-Sahwa militiaman in the al-Khadra district that was formerly an al-Qa'ida stronghold. "They can gather information on the police commandos and tip off anybody who is going to be arrested."
Other al-Sahwa members confirm this. Saleh Jabar Mohsin, 21, a former student, explained the recent wave of assassinations of al-Sahwa members. "We know," he said, "that anybody from al-Sahwa who has been killed, was shot because he really was working against al-Qa'ida or other Islamic groups. A second reason might be that he had refused to play a dual role [working for both the Americans and al-Qa'ida].".....
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Quote:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
Cheney makes surprise visit to Iraq
Mar 17 04:25 AM US/Eastern
US Vice President Dick Cheney swept into Baghdad on an unannounced visit Monday, looking to highlight security gains and promote elusive political progress days before the war enters its sixth year.
Minutes after he arrived, an explosion rocked central Baghdad, following a roadside bombing that killed a policeman, underscoring the violence that still grips the nation almost five years after the US-led invasion of Iraq.
Cheney met the top US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, and the US ambassador Ryan Crocker, and was to hold talks with Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and other senior Iraqi political figures.
The unheralded visit, shrouded in secrecy and blanketed with security, came as Cheney opened a nine-day visit to the Middle East and beyond, with scheduled stops in Oman, Saudi Arabia, Israel and the West Bank, and Turkey.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/30645.html
....Cheney spent Monday in a tightly choreographed hopscotch, moving at least six times for high-level meetings. In the fortress-like Green Zone compound, which houses the U.S. and Iraqi headquarters, he met Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki; Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq; and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker.
Maliki said his talks with Cheney focused on negotiations for a long-term U.S.-Iraqi security agreement that would replace the United Nations mandate for foreign troops, which expires at the end of the year.
Traveling under military guard along roads that had been swept for bombs and were lined with security forces, Cheney ventured a mile or so outside the Green Zone to call on Iraqi President Jalal Talabani and Abdelaziz al Hakim, the head of the powerful Iranian-backed Shiite party known as the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council.....
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Do they think we are stupid? Neither Cheney nor McCain has an Iraq or Iran, or a middle east policy that is "reality based". <h3>By the description of his state visit to Iraq, the Iranian president demonstrated that his country is the winner in the Iraq war. He pre-announced his visit, and conducted himself in Iraq without fear. Cheney and McCain arrived in Iraq like thieves in the night, continuing to hide behind heavy military escort, or inside a fortress, during their entire visits, even as they praised and took credit for the improving security conditions.</h3>
As Glenn Greenwald wrote about McCain's speech:
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.....Just as one would expect, given their identical worldviews, Bush and McCain burdened with exactly the same absurd contradictions. Hence: the key to our security is to undermine Muslims' resentment towards the U.S., which we'll accomplish by occupying Iraq indefinitely and threatening Iran. "Victory" in Iraq means a government supported by the majority of Iraqis and yet which somehow is simultaneously a "key U.S. ally in the war on terror" and a friend of Israel.....
......We should continue to interfere in Middle East countries (thus ensuring increased anti-Americanism) and simultaneously spread democracy (thus ensuring the election of anti-American political leaders). We must rein in government spending while pursuing hegemonic policies that we can't remotely afford to pay for, etc. etc.....
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Isn't this an apt description of the Bush/Cheney/McCain disconnect?
Last edited by host; 05-28-2008 at 09:18 PM..
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