Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubertuber
host:
I suggest that you take the replies as an indication that you have not yet made your case in a convincing manner. Perhaps more explanation about how your pasted excerpts relate to each other and prove your thesis would help.
Without some more explanation, this will have to be moved to paranoia.
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By the executive branch's refusal to respond to attempts by those constitutionally responsible for oversight, they bring a thread attempting a discussion of their planning and possible motives, on a politics discussion forum, on themselves, since they refuse to disclose their presidential transition and "Continuity of Government" planning.....even to duly elected officials with the authority and security clearances to conduct inquiry on our behalf. I don't think the posts that you speak of should be a definitive barometer of the appropriateness of this thread, in this forum.
The title of the thread may play to sensationalism, but it is, given the supporting material presented in the OP, and in this and my previous post, grounded in the root concern and reasonable reaction. If the executive branch is doing all of this secret planning and drilling that they appear to be doing, related to "Continuity of Government" and secret "transition planning", related to the transfer of the office of the presidency to a newly elected president, eight months from yesterday, it seems fitting to wonder "out loud", if we should do some visible organizing/planning related to the Jan. 20, 2009 transition, ourselves.
I've provided reports of the Continuity of Gevernment drills, as far back as the '80's, that VP Cheney participated in. Given that they won't disclose what they are planning, but because there appears to be a flurry of it, going on for quite some time, complete with secret and semi-secret executive orders, and their track record for inaccurate and misleading statements on matters related to national security, over the last six years, why wouldn't we be suspicious of the motives and intent of the president and vice-president?
Here's how it works, here. The folks who don't want to react in ways I, myself, would expect all of my fellow Americans to react to the constant challenges by the executive branch, to constitutional authority.....the lawful attempts by our elected officials to find out, on our behalf, WTF the executive branch is doing, and why..... react instead by shooting the messenger, eye rolling, and by attempting, too often successfully, to make the argument and it's well sourced support, seem deficient, not on it's merits, but via "drive by" attempts to make the ideas advanced seem unimaginable. ridiculous, or both.
This is a political discussion forum. It is quite logical, given the breakdown in our federal government checks and balances and the accountability that the checks were envisioned and intended to foster....make visible to the people, that a well documented set of concerns would emerge for discussion in this venue.
Where else would they be discussed in the context of what is at stake....the people's right to know, amidst an ongoing threat to usurp congressional authority by the executive branch. Transfer this to a less respected venue, and those who attempt to end this as a legitimate political discussion and set of concerns, are encouraged to react the same way, whenever they object to discussion on the merits of the argument.
This exercise on a politics discussion forum is an expected and a normal extension of events taking place in Washington.
It can end up being a "town meeting", or a target of ridicule, more fitting of a discussion of say, a coverup by government of aliens landing in Roswell, NM in 1947, I've worked to make it legitimate, and some others post with the purpose of making it illegitimate as an appropriate political discussion.
I think some of us are responding to valid concerns, and I provide evidence that our valid concerns are shared with elected officials thwarted in their official attempts at congressional committee oversight:
Quote:
http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums...d/1242177.aspx
<P align=left><h3>NOTE: <iEM>Whatever the case, you sure gotta wonder why all the planning? </EM></h3>
<P align=left><STRONG></STRONG>
<P align=left><STRONG>"Continuity of Government Planning has ... Already Superseded the Constitution as a Higher Authority"</STRONG>
<P><A href="http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">George Washington's Blog </A><BR>Saturday, May 10, 2008</P>
<P align=left>UC Berkeley Professor Emeritus Peter Dale Scott has <A href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8864" target="_blank">warned</A>:</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P align=left>"If members of the Homeland Security Committee cannot enforce their right to read secret plans of the Executive Branch, then the systems of checks and balances established by the U.S. Constitution would seem to be failing.</P>
<P align=left>To put it another way, if the White House is successful in frustrating DeFazio, then Continuity of Government planning has arguably already superseded the Constitution as a higher authority."</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>What's he talking about?<BR><BR>Well, in the summer 2007, Congressman Peter DeFazio, on the Homeland Security Committee (and so with proper security access to be briefed on COG issues), inquired about continuity of government plans, and was refused access. Indeed, DeFazio told Congress that <A href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdfjsS9Wqk8" target="_blank">the entire Homeland Security Committee of the U.S. Congress has been denied access to the plans</A> by the White House (video; or <A href="http://fas.org/sgp/congress/2007/cog.html" target="_blank">here is the transcript</A>). The Homeland Security Committee has full clearance to view all information about COG plans. DeFazio concluded: "<A href="http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/21/2678/" target="_blank">Maybe the people who think there’s a conspiracy out there are right</A>”.<BR><BR>Professor Scott's point that COG planning may have already superseded the Constitution can be summarized by making an analogy. Let's assume that the police are not supposed to seize and sell a suspect's house unless a court has held a full trial and found that person guilty of a certain offense. And let's say that the police seize and sell somebody's house, but that the suspect's relatives cannot find any record that there has been a trial, let alone a finding of guilt by the court.</P>
<P>(Article continues below)<BR><BR>
<BR><BR>Let's say they go to the City Council (which is the local counterpart of the U.S. Congress -- that is, part of the legislative branch), and the City Council asks the police if the suspect was found guilty by the court. If the police refuse to even answer the City Council's question, that shows that the rule of law has broken down. In other words, whether or not there was a trial and a guilty verdict, the failure of the police to answer the question shows that the police (part of the executive branch) are acting outside of the law by failing to respect the separation of powers between the police and the City Council.<BR><BR>As Steven Aftergood, of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, notes:<BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>"<A href="http://niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ask_this.view&askthisid=00321" target="_blank">Of the 54 National Security Presidential Directives issued by the [George W.] Bush Administration to date, the titles of only about half have been publicly identified. There is descriptive material or actual text in the public domain for only about a third. In other words, there are dozens of undisclosed Presidential directives that define U.S. national security policy and task government agencies, but whose substance is unknown either to the public or, as a rule, to Congress</A>."</BLOCKQUOTE>Similarly, Senator Russ Feingold, a member of the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary committees, <A href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-feingold8-2008may08,0,2076668.story" target="_blank">wrote</A> yesterday in the Los Angeles Times:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>"The memos on torture policy that have been released or leaked hint at a much bigger body of law about which we know virtually nothing. The Yoo memo was filled with references to other Justice Department memos that have yet to see the light of day, on subjects including the government's ability to detain U.S. citizens without congressional authorization and the government's ability to bypass the 4th Amendment in domestic military operations.<BR><BR>Another body of secret law involves the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). In 1978, Congress created the special FISA court to review the government's requests for wiretaps in intelligence investigations, which is -- and should be -- done behind closed doors. But with changes in technology and with this administration's efforts to expand its surveillance powers, the court today is doing more than just reviewing warrant applications. It is issuing important interpretations of FISA that have effectively made new law.<BR><BR>These interpretations deeply affect Americans' privacy rights, and yet Americans don't know about them because they are not allowed to see them. Very few members of Congress have been allowed to see them either. When the Senate recently approved some broad and controversial changes to FISA, almost none of the senators voting on the bill could know what the law currently is.<BR><BR>The code of secrecy also extends to yet another body of law: changes to executive orders. The administration takes the position that a president can "waive" or "modify" a published executive order without any public notice -- simply by not following it. It's every president's prerogative to change an executive order, but doing so without public notice works a secret change in the law. And, because the published order stays on the books, Congress and the public have no idea that it's no longer in effect. We don't know how many of these covert changes have been made by this administration or, for that matter, by past administrations.<BR><BR>***<BR>Keeping the law secret doesn't enhance national security, but it does give the government free rein to operate without oversight or accountability. Even the congressional intelligence committees, which are supposed to oversee the intelligence community, have been denied access to some of these legal opinions.<BR><BR>Congress should pass legislation to require the administration to alert Congress when the law created by Justice Department opinions ignores or even violates the laws passed by Congress, and to require public notice when it is waiving or modifying a published executive order. Congress and the public shouldn't have to wonder whether the executive branch is following the laws that are on the books or some other, secret law."<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>Like all important political issues of the day, the government will not agree to to the right thing unless the public demands it. The White House will not agree to follow the Constitution and the rule of law, or even to disclose whether or not the COG plans which were implemented on 9/11 are still in effect, unless the public demands it. Professor Scott <A href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8864" target="_blank">stresses</A> the importance of citizen activism in this regard:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<P align=left>"Will Congress insist on its right of review COG? The answer to this question will depend on discussion in the blogosphere, the degree of pressure exerted by the electorate on their representatives, and the questions asked the men and women who would be president."</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
I join Professor Scott's call for public input, and urge We Are Change - style citizen activism regarding COG. Specifically, I urge people to bring videocameras and to <A href="http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/05/wanted-dead-or-alive-reward.html" target="_blank">ask Congress people, White House officials and spokespeople, judges, and every other high-level official whether COG plans are currently in effect</A>, to film their responses, and to post the video on the Web. </p></p></p>
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Quote:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/congr...3=h_20061023_3
Dems Threaten To Subpoena Department Transition Plans
<h3>Wed. Apr. 23, 2008
Democrats on the House Homeland Security Committee today threatened to subpoena the Homeland Security Department to get access to presidential transition planning documents.</h3> If they make good on the threat, it would be the first subpoena issued against the department since its creation in 2003. Democrats charge that the department has failed to give the committee enough information describing how the agency plans to handle the transition to a new president and administration after the November election. They are giving the department until May 23 to produce the documents. “We want that information or else we’re going to subpoena you,” Rep. Bill Pascrell, D-N.J., told the department’s acting deputy secretary, Paul Schneider, during a hearing. House Homeland Security Chairman Bennie Thompson added, “We think it’s reasonable for the committee’s jurisdiction to have access to those planning documents and whatever you have in place to address transition.” A law enacted last year mandates that the department provide a “transition and succession plan” by Dec. 1 to the incoming administration. It does not require that plan to be submitted to Congress.
According to Pascrell, committee Democrats are seeking contact information identifying the department officials responsible for transition planning; a list of program priorities for the next administration; a list of political appointees at the department; and itemized budgets for each agency within the department handling the transition. Aides added the committee wants a detailed plan for how each operational agency is planning for the transition. That includes agencies such as Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and the Transportation Security Administration. Schneider said the department had informed the committee that there is no budget information pertaining to the transition. Schneider’s testimony to the committee today included a list of department posts held by political appointees. The department previously gave the committee a seven-page PowerPoint document entitled “DHS Transition Planning,” but Schneider acknowledged more documents exist. Democrats said information the department has provided is inadequate. Aides said the list of presidential appointees does not provide names of each official. They said they want the department to explain whether any of the presidential appointees have been moved to career civil servant positions.
Schneider said the department is required by law to give Congress a full transition plan by October — a claim that could not be immediately verified. Regardless, he said he would “look to see if there is other documentation we can provide” to comply with the committee’s demands by May 23. He offered assurances the department will be ready for the transition. For example, the department has identified a career civil servant to be in charge of each major operational agency during the transition, he said. “We are taking a multi-pronged approach to our transition planning to ensure operational continuity of homeland security responsibilities during the presidential administration transition,” he said. “Our goal is to ensure the programs we are implementing are on track for the next administration.”
by Chris Strohm
Wed. Apr. 23, 2008
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Quote:
http://hsc.house.gov/issues/index.as...=2008&issue=10
Concerns with DHS Domestic Spy Platform Remain for Homeland Security Committee Leaders
Monday, April 07, 2008
(WASHINGTON) – Today, Committee on Homeland Security Chairman Bennie G. Thompson (D-MS), Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing, and Terrorism Risk Assessment Chair Jane Harman (D-CA), and Subcommittee on Management, Investigations, and Oversight Chairman Chris P. Carney (D-PA) sent a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff detailing their concerns over the progress of the Department’s National Applications Office (NAO).
The letter details the Members’ dissatisfaction with the lack of not only a legal framework and Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) for the NAO but also adequate assurances from the Department that the privacy, civil rights, and civil liberties issues involved with turning spy satellites on the homeland have been comprehensively resolved. In September 2007, Chairman Thompson, Chair Harman, and Chairman Carney requested that the NAO be put on hold until their concerns had been addressed. Now, over seven months later – and despite a commitment from the Department that the overdue documents would be provided in due course – many of the same concerns have yet to be satisfactorily addressed. DHS nevertheless plans to operationalize the NAO in the very near future.
The NAO is a planned element within the Department of Homeland Security first publicized in August 2007. The office is described as the government’s gatekeeper for all requests to access spy satellite imagery for domestic purposes, including homeland security, law enforcement, intelligence, and geospatial. See link below for a PDF version of the letter
# # #
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Please contact Dena Graziano or Adam Comis at (202) 225-9978
RELATED DOCUMENTS:
* <a href="http://hsc.house.gov/SiteDocuments/20080407134422-36588.PDF">Letter</a>
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Quote:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2007/cog.html
[Congressional Record: August 2, 2007 (House)]
[Page H9548]
AMERICA NEEDS A PLAN TO PROVIDE FOR CONTINUITY OF GOVERNMENT
(Mr. DeFAZIO asked and was given permission to address the House for
1 minute.)
Mr. DeFAZIO. Most Americans would agree that it would be prudent to
have a plan to provide for the continuity of government and the rule of
law in case of a devastating terrorist attack or natural disaster, a
plan to provide for the cooperation, the coordination and continued
functioning of all three branches of the government.
The Bush administration tells us they have such a plan. They have
introduced a little sketchy public version that is clearly inadequate
and doesn't really tell us what they have in mind, but they said, don't
worry; there's a detailed classified version. But now they've denied
the entire Homeland Security Committee of the United States House of
Representatives access to their so-called detailed plan to provide for
continuity of government. They say, trust us. Trust us, the people who
brought us Katrina, to be competent in the face of a disaster? Trust
us, the people who brought us warrantless wiretapping and other
excesses eroding our civil liberties? Trust us?
Maybe the plan just really doesn't exist and that's why they won't
show it to us. I don't know. Or maybe there's something there that's
outrageous. The American people need their elected representatives to
review this plan for the continuity of government.
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Quote:
http://hsc.house.gov/press/index.asp...&PublishDate=0
Thompson, DeFazio, Carney Call on White House to Provide Emergency Plans
Friday, July 27, 2007
July 27, 2007 – Today, Committee on Homeland Security Committee Chairman Bennie G. Thompson (D-MS), Subcommittee on Management, Investigations, and Oversight Chairman Christopher P. Carney (D-PA), and Homeland Security Committee member Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-OR) sent a letter to Frances Townsend, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism regarding the rejection of a request by the Committee to allow Congressman DeFazio to view classified portions related to federal emergency continuity plans in the “Homeland Security Presidential Directive-20”.
The text of the letter is attached.
Congressman Thompson released the following statement along with the letter:
“Once again the Bush Administration has shown a lack of respect for this Congress, but more importantly, they have displayed a lack of respect for the Constitution by not recognizing the equality of the three branches of government. The denial of the Administration to provide this vital national security document raises serious concerns about how they plan to insure the continuity of government should a catastrophic incident take place.”
Congressman DeFazio added the following:
"I can't see any reason or justification to deny a member of Congress the right to review how the Administration intends to conduct the government of the United States after a catastrophic national emergency," DeFazio said. "I thought this was a routine request, but this makes you wonder."
Congressman Carney also added:
“This is a disturbing and inexplicable refusal by the Administration to cooperate with Congressional oversight activities. As Chairman of the House Homeland Security Subcommittee on Management, Investigations, and Oversight, I am troubled by the White House's attempt to block our inquiry into the government’s continuity of operations plan. I came to Congress to fight bureaucracy and increase transparency, and I will continue to demand nothing short of complete cooperation with the Homeland Security Committee’s oversight efforts."
RELATED DOCUMENTS:
* <a href="http://hsc.house.gov/SiteDocuments/20070727193755-38123.pdf">Letter in PDF form</a>
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Last edited by host; 05-21-2008 at 12:54 AM..
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