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On 05/16/2008 at about 1:30am, a 20 year old woman reported that she was walking from the Rendezvous Lounge, at 128 N. Tejon to her vehicle which was parked in the Antlers parking garage. When she was walking down the alley behind 20 S. Tejon Street she was approached by an unknown male. The woman was grabbed by the male and forced to the ground. The victim was then sexually assaulted for a period of about 10 minutes.
The victim was contacted by police at Memorial Hospital at about 10:24am, 05/16/2008. The victim was treated for injuries to her lower back.
The victim described the suspect as a Hispanic male, late 20's, 6'03", heavy set, with short black hair in a buzz cut, with a light complexion with freckles. The suspect was also described as having a crooked front tooth and having lettering tattooed on his left forearm.
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Friday. I'm sorry, but this isn't one in a million. Statistics be damned; statistical averages don't mean a fucking thing when this happens twice a week in a "safe" city. I'd like to see any of you tell this woman that it's a "rare" thing and that being prepared for it is an "unreasonable" reaction, since she's so "unlikely" to have it happen to her. Going into an alley late at night alone in downtown only happens for one reason; you're either willfully or blissfully ignorant of the actual threat. "Defending herself" here didn't even need to involve a firearm.
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Originally Posted by vanblah
I've met more gun owners who do stupid things with guns: like leave them out and loaded when children are present; wave them around in traffic threatening anyone who cuts them off (I'll never ride with him again); etc.
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Both of those things are criminal acts. I had (perhaps erroneously) assumed we were talking about law-abiding gun owners, and I'm sorry that you don't know more responsible gun owners. It's certainly an issue, but it has more to do with the lax requirements for owning one and poor training. Both can be addressed without blaming the guns for their owner's inability to act like responsible adults.
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Do you think a gun and a few self-defense classes would have helped here?
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A gun? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know how responsible this woman is, nor can I decide whether she's physically and emotionally capable of responsibly carrying one based only on her name and the crime committed against her. Self defense classes? Absolutely; I'm have yet to make this thread about how great guns are, only that they are ONE of the tools that
I use to defend my person and property. Glancing at the OP again might be helpful. I absolutely don't think firearms are a good solution for everyone, and I'm actually more comfortable if people were convinced to NOT own a firearm by this thread. Only those who understand the responsibility (and legality) of them should even consider it. Cyn's got it right:
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Originally Posted by Cynthetiq
Just because Jinn and dk advocate carrying and using guns doesn't mean that because you hear gun fire you immediately draw and start firing in the direction of the gunshot. It is important for the person drawing the weapon assess the situation and determine the threat and if return fire is required.
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And finally:
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Originally Posted by willravel
I wonder what would have happened had DK or Jinn been in my shoes when I was shot. They would have been shot (I didn't really know I was in danger until there was a rather alarming hole in my calf), then they would have killed the guy? He'd likely be dead now. For absolutely no reason whatsoever.
The guy who shot me was repentant, btw. He was behaving irresponsibly with the gun and I ended up the victim.
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I'm not really sure. We're talking hypothetical situations, so we can't exactly force the situation identically. A good part of carrying a firearm (and self defense in general) is avoidance. Only about 1% of my plan involves drawing my weapon. It's just like any martial art that emphasizes that you should NEVER want to use your training, and you should try everything in your power, from avoidance to talking them down to running away before using it.
If "I were in your shoes", I would've avoided racing in commercial districts late at night. I'd be lying if I said I haven't done it, but I would a rule of
not getting out of my car, and if a "confrontation" happened, I would've apologized and told him how he was so much better than me so I could get in my car and drive away. I have no reservations telling a guy he's so great, and I'm his bitch and wow his penis must be huge because he totally owned me, if it means I get to walk away without a confrontation. Whether it's words, fists or guns, it's not worth it.
However, if we really force the situation and say that I'm standing in your shoes when you were shot and I were armed; if he drew a firearm and waved it in
any direction, yes, I would've done everything in my power to end the threat. You might call it "needless" in hindsight, but you yourself admit that he could've taken your life. When someone draws a firearm, you have NO way of knowing whether you will live or die. Whether you continue to live for another 5, 10, 25, 50 years is absolutely no longer in your control. THEY decide whether you continue to exist or whether you rot with the maggots. I'm simply not comfortable letting someone else whether I live or die. I don't care whether they're "repentant" or not after the fact, I won't be there to see them repent for killing me. Nothing is more important to me in this life than continuing to live.
I've had a switchblade activated and tapped against my chest, and I didn't draw my firearm and shoot the (young) man. I talked him down, let him shove me into my car, and drove away. I'm still upset that I let him come so physically close, not that I didn't shoot him. I should've fled on foot.