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Originally Posted by filtherton
I don't think I disagree with this at all. Epicurus fails because his concept of malevolence is overly broad and simplistic. It has nothing to do will omnipotence or all-powerfullness
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His definition of malevolence is semantically correct.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
So what you're saying is that you don't have anything specific in mind, but you're pretty sure they're in there somewhere.
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I'm saying that it's mentioned so often, that if I were to write out all the verses where it's mentioned, I'd crash TFP. Crack open the thing. Read it.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
Even if the "somewhere in the bible" definition of evil was to play, it still ignores that fact that religious folk often interpret the bible, so that what might appear to you (someone who thinks all denominations are the same) to be a definition of evil might be taken to mean something else entirely by folks who actually practice.
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Why don't we do this, I'll choose 4 verses mentioning evil and use them to derive an axiom:
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Originally Posted by Matthew 13:49-50
"So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth."
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Originally Posted by Deuteronomy 21:18-21
If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father; or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, "This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
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Originally Posted by 11:11-13
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
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Originally Posted by 1 Peter 3:11
Turn from evil; do good; seek peace; pursue it.
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So, evil is, according to 4 random verses: the opposite of righteousness, stubbornness and rebelliousness, giving people something dangerous instead of what they ask for, and the opposite of peace. Let's apply this to Epicurus's riddle:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is god willing to stop war (the opposite of peace)? Nope.
Is god willing to stop the process of having something dangerous be given to people? Nope.
Is god willing to stop stubbornness and rebelliousness? Nope.
Is god willing to stop that which is unjustified? Nope.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
I missed that part. Please explain it to me again like I'm slow.
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Unless god's "plan" supersedes logic, it doesn't negate the logic in the riddle.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
It is rational and logical, if you have any sort of rational or logical commitment to the actual definitions of the words "rational" and "logical".
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How often in this thread have to asked me to essentially look something up for you? And how often have you been frustrated that the conversation turns to semantics?
www.dictionary.com
Go right ahead.