Thread: "Patriot" Act
View Single Post
Old 06-05-2003, 08:49 AM   #75 (permalink)
Kadath
Muffled
 
Kadath's Avatar
 
Location: Camazotz
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ubertuber
Kadath -

I do see what you are saying, but it isn't exactly what I was asking, so I'll clarify.

I am assuming that the reason you advocate restricting gun ownership is because you wish to see a reduction in violent crime, not simply because you don't want people to have guns. If this is the case, then why not stick to measures that treat the condition that concerns you - namely jack the penalties for gun related crimes through the ceiling? This way the only people affected will be those who are breaking the law that concerns you.
[/quote
Not only do I want do I want to reduce violent crime, but I want to eliminate the so-called "culture of violence" that exists in this country. I'm not trying to get rid violent movies or video games or anything like that, but the idea that it is every American's right and indeed duty to own a gun for protection.

Quote:
Originally posted by ubertuber

Secondly, and this is for my clarification... You suggest a mandatory 5 year sentence for firearm possesion. I would have thought that under our present system one would likely get 5 or more years in jail for shooting someone. If this is the case, why would the lesser penalty (gun possession) be a more effective deterrent than the greater penalty (gun violence)? If this is not the case, why not change only the laws regarding gun violence?
Well, I'm proposing, if you'll notice, a penalty of 15-20 years for using a gun in a violent crime. The jail time for possession is just a deterrent to owning a gun at all, much like drug possession. Just as selling drugs is a much steeper penalty than possession, using a gun would be much steeper than owning one.

Quote:
Originally posted by ubertuber

Also, please clarify for me what exactly was the circumstance in England when this gun ban took effect. I ask because I wonder if America is over a "critical mass" of gun ownership - both registered and unregistered. Even if we made ownership illegal, wouldn't there still be a lot of guns out there, right? It kind seems that the people most likely to obey an ownership ban are the ones least likely to prevent the crimes you are concerned with. Not to mention outlawing things that people want to keep has not historically been very productive in the US (war on drugs, prohibition anyone?).

I wonder if we should treat guns like another common but dangerous object in american culture - cars. You must be trained in the use of a car before you can be licensed to do so. If you use one without a license, you can and should be legally slamdunked. If you misuse one with a license, you can and should have your right to use a car revoked, and you can and should be put away. This way, you address the irresponsible users first, not the responsible users or innocent owners. I know that you might say that cars are more of a necessity in modern society, but I think that the principle of not restricting more rights than necessary can be applied (and should).

Of course as I said in the beginning, my questions assume that you truly wish to reduce gun crime, not that you are offended by other people possessing firearms.

Ok, gotta run... Lohengrin awaits me!

uber
Your initial concern mirrors my own. I am afraid that America has reached the point of no return so far as guns are concerned, but if we take that stance and use that as an excuse to not do anything, how does that help? And while a program similar to that of driver education would help to reduce the number of accidents, it would also serve to mainstream gun possession and use to an even greater degree, something I wish fervently to avoid. The possession of a car and a gun are two very different things, as a car, while dangerous if used incorrectly, is safe if not and serves a very crucial purpose. A gun is dangerous whether used incorrectly or not(the danger merely shifts from the user to the target) and serves no purpose but to injure.
I am not offended, per se, by people owning guns. But I do think that reducing gun violence would be best accomplished by reducing gun numbers to as close to zero as practical.
__________________
it's quiet in here
Kadath is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360