The points you made may have been interesting to talk about.... until I got to here... then, to me it became nothing but accusations, false interpretations, a little personal attack.... well let me address it as I see it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by roachboy
in conservativeland, there is this bizarre-o claim that we somehow have floated free of the history of racism, that it no longer matters--this claim seems geared around the core consituency of conservative populist politics, the Eternal Victim, the white petit bourgeois--who on this is set up as the Victim of attempts to address racism the Victim of the history of it. that these arguments recapitulate the same arguments made by elements of the same social class to justify the appalling period that we laughingly call "reconstruction" does not matter--history has been vaporized for the populist right and so there we are.
this is one of the central problems in the debate across political viewpoints on race and racism---conservatives make assertions from a position that is particular to their own politics about history and its relation to the present---outside that political viewpoint, these assertions make NO sense.
|
I have been extremely vocal about my views.... when given a true and valid point ON TOPIC I have responded to those I have seen with my opinion and views.
truly see no defense of what the judge's actions were in any of this.
Quote:
so one possible space to talk reasonably is about why these claims do not make sense (for the rest of us, say) or why they do (for conservatives)--but that would assume that conservative folk are both willing and--more to the point--able to defend this position and not just assert it.
second: since this claim resonates not with historical or social reality but with the sense of Being-Victim of the constituency of populist conservatism, it is hard not to see in pan's performance here a kind of repeat of the internal logic of the ideology itself. to justify the claims, he has to CREATE the sense that he is Victim--even if that means running, unmotivated otherwise, into this strange little rat's nest which seems to start each time "people have called me a racist, but i am not" which translates "poor me i am a Victim"
so there is a choice: we can talk about the validity of conservative-specific claims about racism in america--claims that sometimes (as here) utilize the kinda nasty little trick of quoting martin luther king for their own purposes, standing these quotes on their heads, using them to legitimate themselves and their politics rather than as claims which speak to aspirations that we, collectively, have not gotten anywhere near reaching and, if threads like this are any indication, do not know how to even start approaching---or we can assume that this is just another bizarre-o performance piece that is mostly about pan--who at least has the fortitude (intentional or not) to do the performance (no matter how irritating folk find it to be, there IS a way to see this that points to a problem bigger than narcissism)---by which i mean the appeal of these claims about racism in america for conservatives is NOT about their historical or social accuracy, but is rather about the sense of Being Victim they enable conservatives to derive from them.
personally, i see the argument in the op as so weak empirically and so naive historically, that the only plausible grounds for coming up with it seem to me to involve this persona of Eternal Victim, which is at the core of populist conservative politics---it is the way subjects are interpellated by that ideology (positioned as subjects)
|
But overall, it turns the focus off of the OP and the actions of the judge and turns the focus onto something else..... which if I point out, it becomes all about me..... if I ignore it gets worse, because then you say "I ignored it." So as I have done the past few posts, anything addressed to me or about me, will be quoted and given the reply... "off topic, what is you opinion on the OP." I truly see nothing wrong with that.
I do see a lot wrong when the defenses for the judge are weak and proven to be and then the personal attacks start and the focus, not from me, gets taken off the OP. Don't ask... I am pointing them out as they come and have been. I will no longer answer them in any other way.
I didn't reply, because to be quite honest, i don't like the style you type in, to me it's very degrading and pompous.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JinnKai
You wrote it, and it would help to explain why you continue to defend it.
And Jesus, give it up with the "personal attack" mantra.
|
I have given reason upon reason why I defend my opinion and beliefs.
off topic, what is you opinion on the OP.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by roachboy
you aren't willing to respond to critiques of the basis for your op.
you aren't willing to do it.
you prefer indulging some other game.
i think that is directly linked to the politics that you've adopted on this.
you complain about the lack of debate, but when you're challenged, you shuck and jive and in the end don't address what's directed at you.
people, myself included, get exasperated.
you then say "personal attack!"
read the posts i referenced please and maybe engage across that.
or, if you prefer, a blunter version:
put up or shut up.
|
off topic, what is you opinion on the OP.
I have post after post after post shown and reiterated my views and beliefs on this topic. I have defended them and given examples and you still want to say I'm not addressing the issue?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by roachboy
you aren't willing to respond to critiques of the basis for your op.
you aren't willing to do it.
you prefer indulging some other game.
i think that is directly linked to the politics that you've adopted on this.
you complain about the lack of debate, but when you're challenged, you shuck and jive and in the end don't address what's directed at you.
people, myself included, get exasperated.
you then say "personal attack!"
read the posts i referenced please and maybe engage across that.
or, if you prefer, a blunter version:
put up or shut up.
|
posts 1, 12, 68, 73, 76, 79, 81, 90, 92 have all been on topic, once I got through the personal bullshit stuff I had to address.
You never replied to Post 99.
But yet again, I broke my own rule and this is the LAST time, I refuse to have to defend myself. If it has nothing to do with the OP, I just won't read it.
off topic, what is you opinion on the OP.
Have a nice day
