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Originally Posted by KnifeMissile
Science is a method of investigation. Science doesn't
observe things, we do! If there is a phenomena that you can't
observe, why do you think it ever happened? Do you see the madness in this
proposition? This is what it is to be religious...
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Is there a phenomena that science can't investigate? The set of things that
are observable and amenable to scientific investigation is a subset of the
set of things that are observable- to claim otherwise is to claim that
science can achieve omniscience.
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I could hardly make sense of most of this paragraph but I think I
understand the last sentence. Let me say that those who think that
explaining "away theism with science miss the point of theism" miss the
point of science!
In other words (without a forced quotation), those who wonder why anyone
would investigate theism scientifically miss the point of science!
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I'm not sure anyone has claimed to wonder why someone would investigate theism scientifically, so that's really beside the point.
The point that I was making is that there are many beliefs held by theists
for which examination by the scientific process is irrelevant. Science has
nothing to say about the existence of a god, but it can say things about what an existing god is not, for instance, god is obviously not a visible hobgoblin on
Pat Robertson's shoulder. Science is impotent when it comes to explaining
the things that theism (in it's most general form) attempts to explain.
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My problem with religion is when religious people start enforcing
the principles of their fairy tales onto me. When they start influencing
politics, en mass, on issues of what I may or may not wear, whom I may or
may not marry, what I may or may not research, what we may or may not
teach, etc... then fuck you and your religion! These people have political
power and very few of them live with the idea that "well, they're my
beliefs so I'm the only one who needs to follow them." Christians on this
continent think that their religion constitutes absolute morality
and, thus, must enforce this onto everyone...
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Not all religious people are attempting to make you live by their beliefs. How can you expect to be taken seriously as the arbiter of reason you seem to think you are if you can't even be bothered to notice the very real distinctions between the religious people who bother you and the religious people who couldn't care less about anything you do?
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I only brought up science because that's what offends me the most.
In rural America, anti-science fundamentalist christians are not a fringe
minority. They make up more than 50% of the population and the rest of the
theists don't appear to be standing up to their religious cousins. It
really looks like religion is the problem and not just a couple of
wackos...
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I think the more reasonable explanation is that people are the problem, and
that the culture of rural america is much more complex than you seem to
think it is.