Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Are You Leaning Far Enough to the Right to be Considered a Fascist?

roachboy · 03-26-2008, 12:05 PM

loquitor:

in terms of being careful about the usage of the term "fascism" i agree with you---earlier in this thread, i outlined a pretty comprehensive definition of the term and i don't use it unless the criteria are fulfilled.

what has happened in the thread more generally is a series of definitions, most of which are so vague as to be useless, which demonstrate the other point--which is perfectly obvious if you know the history of usage of the term "fascist"--which is that it is also a bit of invective that gets drained of any specificity and so functions basically to say "i dont like x."

what's annoying is that the actual definitions of the term that have been put up here have been fucking ignored.

i don't think anyone did it intentionally, but it is beyond irritating to find the thread at this impasse when i, for one, had actually devoted (wasted as it turns out) the time to try to put together an operational definition of the ideology.

so i see the thread as a self-fulfilling little exercise which demonstrates the persistence of the second meaning, as a bit of invective.

but that it CAN be used and IS being used in a way that drains it of content does not mean that there is no ideological signified that CAN be referenced by way of the term "fascism"--the is obviously a considerable body of scholarly work on the ideology--i know alot of that stuff--and when i use the term, i do it with that in mind. and there are close parallels between contemporary american populist conservatism and strains of ideological fascism in the france of the 1930s--poujadisme in france of the 1950s---- italian fascism in its more corporatist form--->one *can* restrict a conversation to a technical understanding of the term and demonstrate the parallels point by point.
an elegant, simply demonstration that points to ugly and disturbing conclusions it is, too.

it is also possible to dissolve this demonstration by piling up enough bullshit around the category so that the technical meanings ascribed the term by people who have actually done the work to figure out its specific ideological parameters get buried.

that is what is happening here.

it's hard not to wonder why that would be the case.

03-26-2008, 12:05 PM	#159 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	loquitor: in terms of being careful about the usage of the term "fascism" i agree with you---earlier in this thread, i outlined a pretty comprehensive definition of the term and i don't use it unless the criteria are fulfilled. what has happened in the thread more generally is a series of definitions, most of which are so vague as to be useless, which demonstrate the other point--which is perfectly obvious if you know the history of usage of the term "fascist"--which is that it is also a bit of invective that gets drained of any specificity and so functions basically to say "i dont like x." what's annoying is that the actual definitions of the term that have been put up here have been fucking ignored. i don't think anyone did it intentionally, but it is beyond irritating to find the thread at this impasse when i, for one, had actually devoted (wasted as it turns out) the time to try to put together an operational definition of the ideology. so i see the thread as a self-fulfilling little exercise which demonstrates the persistence of the second meaning, as a bit of invective. but that it CAN be used and IS being used in a way that drains it of content does not mean that there is no ideological signified that CAN be referenced by way of the term "fascism"--the is obviously a considerable body of scholarly work on the ideology--i know alot of that stuff--and when i use the term, i do it with that in mind. and there are close parallels between contemporary american populist conservatism and strains of ideological fascism in the france of the 1930s--poujadisme in france of the 1950s---- italian fascism in its more corporatist form--->one can restrict a conversation to a technical understanding of the term and demonstrate the parallels point by point. an elegant, simply demonstration that points to ugly and disturbing conclusions it is, too. it is also possible to dissolve this demonstration by piling up enough bullshit around the category so that the technical meanings ascribed the term by people who have actually done the work to figure out its specific ideological parameters get buried. that is what is happening here. it's hard not to wonder why that would be the case. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite