View Single Post
Old 03-25-2008, 10:10 PM   #355 (permalink)
SecretMethod70
Human
 
SecretMethod70's Avatar
 
Administrator
Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakran
My main objection isn't to him saying that. It's to the hate-filled, insane rhetoric the guy spews. Again, back to the HIV conspiracy theory. It makes about as much sense as chem trails or a missile hitting the pentagon. And now the guy who wants to effectively run the government turns out to come from a church which thinks the government is out to get them? That, I think, should give people pause.
Tell that to the Tuskegee victims. I don't think the government is behind HIV by any means, but like I've said before, if I were raised as a black kid in poverty and I heard about Tuskegee, then heard some conspiracy theory about HIV, I'm pretty sure I'd believe it.

There hasn't been a single thing, other than the church he chooses to attend, to indicate Obama is sympathetic to any of the more irrational views espoused by Wright and others. I'm not going to hold his church against him any more than I'd refuse to believe John Kerry is pro-choice simply because he attended Catholic church all his life. It's easy to pick out the conspiracy crackpots on TFP within only a couple posts. If Obama believed HIV were caused by the government, we'd know. To think that he'd make it to where he is now without ever personally expressing crackpot views like that, all while believing them, attributes a bizarre level of clairvoyance to him. As does the idea he'd choose his church 20 years ago based on what would help him become president. (And, note, he didn't "choose" his church, he fell into it by meeting Rev. Wright and being introduced to Christianity. That conversion experience can be very strong, and is yet another reason someone might stick around a church long after hearing some things (non-theologically speaking) that they vehemently disagree with.)

But let's say Obama does believe any of the conspiracy theories (a ridiculous presumption, but nonetheless let's say he does). Exactly what damage do you think he'd cause as president? If the government isn't behind HIV, he'll find that out. If he thinks it is but it isn't, what's he gonna do....encourage more HIV research? Oh noes! I don't think for one second that Obama holds that belief, but even if he did it's mostly a non-issue. I'm much more concerned about candidates who think our children shouldn't learn about evolution.

Funny thing is, though, that if you pay attention to pretty much anyone who has known Obama personally in his life, even going back to his party days at Occidental, they have nothing but good things to say about him, and almost everyone makes particular mention of his interest in bringing people together and listening to all sides of an issue. It's far more telling to read about what kind of professor Obama was than it is to hear about the preacher he followed. Like I said, McCain is also running for the highest office in the land, and he went out of his way to have the endorsement of John Hagee. I don't think he'll ignore natural disasters just because his most important religious endorsement is from someone who thinks they're punishments from god, and I don't think Obama will suddenly turn the United States into Africa 2.0.

Which begs the question, come to think of it, what exactly is anyone here afraid he'll do as president in light of Rev. Wright? Don't talk about how you think he's a socialist, don't talk about how he's a normal big city liberal politician. What bad things did you not think he'd do as president that you now think he'll do after hearing about Rev. Wright? Are you afraid he'll suddenly want to put an end to the genocide in Darfur? Maybe he'll want to help restabilize the Kenyan government? Perhaps he'll show concern for the serious problems with endangered species in Africa. All terrible things, for sure. I just don't get it: I can't think of a single tangible nefarious scheme that any sane person would attribute to Obama in light of his relationship to Rev. Wright. The worst that can be said is that he dines with whores (yes that's a Jesus reference, no I don't think Obama is the messiah ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by filtherton
The UCC is one of the most liberal denominations in the whole of Christianity. They don't even believe in hell. It's not like catholicism, or evangelicalism, where you go to hell if you don't agree with the pastor. I think that for a young, progressive person it would seem like the natural choice, especially in light of the how active some UCC churches are in various progressive causes.
Thank you. There's a reason I provide links in my posts. It's a shame people don't follow them.

Instead, it's easier to complain about how Rev. Wright preaches that "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today [is] my own government."










Oh wait, that was the anti-American Martin Luther King, Jr. who said that. What a crackpot. God damn America indeed, for remaining true to this statement 40 years later and learning nothing.

Please Read: Just a Typical Black Person   click to show 
__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Last edited by SecretMethod70; 03-25-2008 at 11:00 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
SecretMethod70 is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360