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Originally Posted by SecretMethod70
shakran: you're making one very large assumption: that Wright gave sermons like that every Sunday.
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A good point. But it is equally, if not moreso, foolhardy to assume that Wright suddenly lost his mind and spewed hate-filled rhetoric "just this once." Especially considering he and Obama are supposedly close, and he has indicated that he wants Obama to win.
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I'm sure his sermons were consistently energetic (it'd be near impossible for Obama to go to a black church that didn't have energetic sermons like that),
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I do not object to the energy.
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but I doubt he was saying "god damn America" week after week. (Which is not even bothering to address the already exhausted point that for a preacher to say "god damn America ... for killing innocent people" is not something that should be considered scandalous in the least.)
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No, probably not, but he probably didn't avoid saying it every weekend either.
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Also, you're assuming that the only reason Obama, or anyone, went to the church is because of Rev. Wright. As abaya pointed out, churches do far more than provide a pulpit to a preacher.
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Abaya is quite correct. However, if the guy's there for 20 years, leading the church, the mouthpiece of the church, the one who sets the course of the church, then it's reasonable to conclude that the church's congregation and higher-ups are OK with the message and the tone that Wright sets.
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For a lot of people, social service is a very important part of their Christian faith.
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This is true, but one does not have to be in a church to volunteer or otherwise help out with social service.
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It's all nice to say "actions speak louder than words" as an excuse to hold Obama's 20 years of attendance against him. But then apply the "actions speak louder than words" metric to Rev. Wright and Trinity as a whole.
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And the hell's angels do an annual Toys for Tots drive. Many branches of the KKK volunteer for Adopt-A-Highway. This does not mean I should go become a member of these organization. It certainly does not mean that, assuming I joined the KKK, I should be surprised if people judge me based on the KKK's message rather than their laudable community beautification efforts.
Just because a group does a service which is valuable to the community does not mean you can join them and not be judged based upon the message that they put out.
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EDIT: And I still don't understand why so many people refuse to give Obama the benefit of the doubt regarding Trinity and Rev. Wright, despite him never having done or said anything to indicate that he is anti-American, a believer in the HIV conspiracy, or any of that.
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I think there are two prongs to this answer. The first I've already covered above, so let's look at the second. Obama is a politician. He wants to attain the highest political office in the land. He's going up against the republican party, who's spin machine is legendary for chewing democrats up and spitting them out. Exactly how stupid can he be to think that associating with this guy, and beyond that continuing to associate and support this guy after this sermon got out, is a good move politically?
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Ultimately, I do think it comes down to the fact there are still plenty of Americans today who are afraid of "angry black men," consciously or not.
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Maybe, maybe not. Maybe we're afraid of someone who supports a guy that believes in and preaches the insane HIV conspiracy theory.
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Had Rev. Wright said "god damn George Bush for killing innocent people" or "god damn the legislature for making drug laws that target lower income, and often black, abusers," it would have still been controversial, but it wouldn't have created such an enormous uproar.
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No, because it would be based in fact rather than wild, lunatic-fringe theories about the Evil Government and How It's Trying to Kill You.
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Next - and I know there are some people who contest this, but let's put it aside for now - it is important to remember that George Bush was elected by the people of the United States.
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I don't think you really can put it aside. He was definitely not elected the first go around, and the legitimacy of his win the second time has been called into serious question.
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The Congressional Democrats are spineless because the most many people are willing to do in order to express their opposition is answer a poll. That hardly gives them confidence that they can weather the storm it'd cause to stand up to this administration.
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We disagree there. I think they're spineless because they're afraid of a fight. The american people overwhelmingly elected the democrats last election. They also overwhelmingly voted conservative on the issue votes. Not ONE gay marriage proposal went through, for instance. What does this tell us? The democrats were elected and sent to Washington with marching orders. Stop. The. War. They had the support of the public. They had the MANDATE from the public. And the first chance they got to do something about it, they caved, rolled over, and let Bush have his way. They didn't do it because they didn't think people would support them. They did it because they were stupid, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it cost them when those who voted with Bush are up for reelection.
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So, why again is it inappropriate to say "god damn America?" Disagreeable, sure...but inappropriate? No.
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My main objection isn't to him saying that. It's to the hate-filled, insane rhetoric the guy spews. Again, back to the HIV conspiracy theory. It makes about as much sense as chem trails or a missile hitting the pentagon. And now the guy who wants to effectively run the government turns out to come from a church which thinks the government is out to get them? That, I think, should give people pause.