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Originally Posted by loquitur
I haven't read the whole thread, but I gotta tell you, so much of the question will turn on how you define torture. Infliction of pain, sure, I think everyone would agree on that. But once you get past that, the questions get murky. How about causing fear? Shame? Discomfort? How much?
This actually is one of the areas in which I don't ask initially "does it work?" Because torture is wrong even if it works, just like murder is wrong even if it achieves some goal and thus "works." I just think we have to confront the issue that some unpleasant treatment is not torture and some is, and finding the line is not always easy.
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Well put. That fine line is what I am trying to find. What separates "unpleasant treatment" from "torture"? This is what we as a nation need to define and set limits and abide by them.
Some people go to extremes on both sides and I feel that it hurts us more not having this defined set limits and divide us when we should be united in these times we are going through as a nation.
I think in some minds it is easier to control a nation divided and to keep them in fear than it is to control a nation united and perhaps while scared of what is possible, united in cause and solution.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
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