Kahn

Let me begin this response by stating that I am in no way intending to insult you or slight your views in any offensive manner. We have a very interesting topic being debated, one I'm rather enjoying being party to, and one I will continue to debate until I no longer have the energy to speak or the voice to be heard.

I think it needs to be strongly reiterated that this crime did occur in the US, so it must be dealt with according to the laws of that nation, which have been voted upon and enforced by society as a whole or in some part, quite literally, for centuries. Your inability to understand this concept, or the reasons behind the voted upon laws clearly stems from an entirely different society with their own apparently very different views towards, at the very least, this particular topic at hand.

I agree that there is a struggle in our society with the notion that killing killers is a justifiable response to the atrocity mentioned herein. This is why we have courts with a group of the accused's peers gathered as a whole to decide the penalty for such a crime as a group intended to represent the voice of the people of the community. This is also why we have elected officials who represent the society as a whole with their views on all facets of the legal community to establish what is and what is not acceptable behaviour as a guideline for the entire community to adhere to.

I have to concede your point here. Yes, they are indeed human, and yes my labeling them as an animal or lunatic is a basic emotional response to the atrocity they have committed. This serves as two purposes, however. One, it clearly demonstrates my disdain for their ilk and the evil they bestow in general. Two, it helps to differentiate their kind of "human" from the rest of the gene pool who, at the very least, are appalled by the actions this type of "human" is obviously capable of and willing to do.

Make no mistake about this. I have no reservations about "crying for blood" in this situation. I do not need to dehumanize a murderer to consider him unfit to live. We have rules that we must, as a society, live by. The most important, in my book is, simply put, not torturing or killing another human being. This rule, like any other rule should and does have, it has a penalty attached to it. I believe that if you take the life of a member of the community, your life becomes forfeit by definition of the rule.

This "human" member of our society broke this rule in a most inhumane and unthinkable way. I feel the penalty should not be swayed from and should be enforced to the fullest extent that the law will allow. I realise some states have voted against the death penalty and I'm willing to accept their right to do so. I'm glad to live in a state that enforces the death penalty for convicted murderers who have proven, beyond doubt, they are unfit to remain a part of society as a whole and simply serve no good purpose to the community in any part.

It should also be noted, for a state to enforce the death penalty, there are certain criteria the crime committed must meet in determining the death sentence as a valid penalty for "murder". I won't list them here as they are extensive and derail the topic at hand, but you should understand that this is not something committed to emotionally or without serious consideration and debate. It is the law of the land in many states, and as such, SHOULD be enforced. Please know there are extensive checks and balances utilized in determining this form of punishment and it is not administered lightly.

The fact that I fully support this concept is purely a personal preference and should be judged separately from the matter at hand.

You are correct here. I misspoke when I said something to the effect of "living amongst the rest of the community" or some such. In my defense, it was very late here for me and I was getting a bit lethargic from lack of sleep.

What I MEANT to say was .. I believe they no longer have the right to live .. period. Now I don't mean that to sound so basic and generalized as saying "if you commit murder, you should be put to death". I realise there are circumstances to every crime, including acts of brutality that involve the taking of another human life. I believe that if you kill someone in self defense, there should be some reprieve from the death sentence, as the act of murder in this instance was of a human instinct to survive. I also believe that murder committed in the heat of passion or extreme emotional duress, such as finding a lover cheating and you just snap. I feel there should be SOME kind of leniency here, but not much. There are other example I could list, but I believe you begin to see my point here.

That being said, if you brutally torture someone INNOCENT, and then kill them, or perform acts that summarily result in their death, for no sane justifiably understandable motive other than the pure bliss one such as this breed of "human" seems to get from killing, you have nothing to offer me or my society that I care to extract from you. Your life is forfeit and I'll gladly be the one to pull the trigger or push the plunger that ends your sick, miserable existence.

You must pardon me on this one, as I was attempting to be facetious in the hope of keeping this debate as light and unoffensive as possible. My attempt at humor was not only ill-received, but misplaced as there is no place for humor in this discussion.

In a word ... justice. I realise the victim in this will never see another day and will never know that justice is or is not served in this matter on her behalf. I also believe there aren't any family members who really care enough about the victim to benefit from the outcome of this matter either, and if there are, then I've missed their mention thus far. However, I still remain, as do the rest of my community, many of which who are equally outraged by the heinous crime committed and seek some resolution to this unforgivable act. You may ask me yet again "but why the death sentence" and I can simply reply "because that is the penalty for such a sick and evil crime".

I think you may have misunderstood me here. I don't care how humane a person who is capable of the sick, evil, inhumane act of torture and murder of another human being is treated .. on a personal level. Personally, I'd like to wreak equally unthinkable wicked and evil acts upon the "human" who did this to that poor woman, but I realise in my heart that this would simply put me on their level and make me every bit the monster they are. It is an emotional response that bespeaks my outrage and contempt for the sick bastards who did this and, upon reflection, an unreasonable response.

I also know in my heart that I am better than the "humans" charged with this crime, because I know the right and wrong of this act and am able to restrain myself from committing such heinous acts. Thusly, I have separated myself from their kind of "animal", being an animal myself, but demonstrating I am a superior breed of animal by comparison for demonstrating humane compassion and emotional restraint.

Summarily, I concede that their execution should be as humane and respectful and humanly possible .. we are going to have to live with our actions after all .. but, should be enforced as expediently and decisively as the law will allow.

There are people .. animals .. evil criminals who reside on "death row". Convicted of heinous crimes against humanity and sentenced to death for said acts, rightfully so I believe. These "animals" live far better than some impoverished people guilty of no crime, save being poor. We pay to house these "animals" and provide them with the most posh of environments (considering they're imprisoned and sentenced to death) and amenities most hard working families struggle to attain with sweat and tears, giving them the most humane end to their miserable existence possible. So we are capable of being humane. I think we need to be more diligent in being strict about enforcing the sentence, as we are about being humane to the condemned.

Yes. At least on some level and to some degree, I do. If you stop dragging your feet (society in general, not you specifically) about enforcing the death penalty and prove to convicted murderers that they WILL be put to death for committing so heinous a crime, that EVENTUALLY the message will sink in .. to at least some of these sick bastards, and some is still better than none.

As it is right now, someone commits murder, for whatever motive or rationale, and they know they MIGHT be sentenced to death, depending on if their specific crime fits all the necessary criteria to grant the death penalty, and at worst, may have to be incarcerated for the rest of their natural born lives. Many of these sick individuals don't care about being put in the prison system, because they know they can still survive .. and in many cases, survive perhaps even better than they did out of prison, or at least within an acceptably reasonable manner. Knowing this, they don't care to suffer the punishment for murder, because the payment of their own execution is not enforced enough to scare them away from killing others.

I can. I believe I can detach myself just enough from the emotional attachments I have to the very concept of killing another human being to realise there must be some equally appalling penalty for such an act. I believe in the notion "an eye for an eye" wholeheartedly. I believe if you commit an act against your fellow man, that you should pay an equal price for your act. If you steal something, you should have something taken away from you. If the "something" you stole was the life of another human being, I believe your life should be the price you pay.

I have to strongly disagree with you here. As I said earlier, if you actually execute the sick "animals" who commit these sorts of heinous crimes in an expedient fashion .. EVENTUALLY .. the message "we really do mean business" will become all too clear to the rest of the sick animals in society not yet guilty of such acts, but potentially capable of them, and most certainly to those being executed, as it will most likely be the very last thought that should cross their sick, twisted mind.

You can label the result of enforcing the death penalty as retribution or anything else you like, it matters not to me, I won't discuss the semantics of it here. The fact remains it is a necessary evil that gives us a very strong reply to the act of murdering another member of our community.

As for the "much more productive ends for such individuals" that you mentioned, I have no idea what could possibly be equally punishing to the convicted killer while still being productive to our society in any fashion. This just feels like some half-hearted suggestion made by a less than fully committed resolve. If you cannot condone or rationalize "any course of action that leads to the taking of a human life", then I respectfully suggest you to step aside and leave this matter to those who can, and will, because from where I sit, you offer me no reasonably acceptable solution to changing my current thinking.

By definition, a sociopath is a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. They can either know right from wrong, and simply choose to do wrong regardless, or not know right from wrong and simply do wrong out of ignorance or defect. For me personally, there should be no shades of gray here. You display antisocial tendencies and commit immoral acts .. FOR WHATEVER REASON .. you should still be held accountable for your actions.

I sympathize with you here and am equally saddened to think on how terrible this person's life must have been to compel her to display such tendencies and commit such acts. It sickens me, quite literally, to know that there really are people out there like this, just outside my door perhaps, or around the corner, just waiting to explode like the ticking bomb they literally are. Thinking of the hell they must have had to endure which will eventually lead them to actually committing such brutal acts of violence and escalating them to transform into unthinkably evil monsters is incredibly disturbing, to say the least. I literally pity them, I do. The saddest reality of all is, we may never be able to answer the question of "how or why" could someone do such things.

That being said, in all sincerity, does not excuse the heinous crimes committed against the victim in this story and should be dealt with accordingly. There are countless accounts of abuse victims who have grown to lead absolutely normal, non-abusive lives without so much as raising a finger to their fellow man. Being abused, traumatized, mistreated, and so on and so forth, does not justify violating the most sacred rule in the book .. "thou shalt not kill". I think we can and do agree that this is a very good rule, and should never be violated in any normal circumstance. The act of murder in this instance was certainly not normal and should be dealt with by committed resolve and a certain equally fair response.

This notion is absolutely absurd on many levels and I'm really not interested in debating semantics with such a closed mind. However, there is one point I felt compelled to mention that you clearly have missed. An unbuilt car will never become a human being .. and .. quite literally .. is an object you can stop making at any point. An unborn FETUS .. whether an actual human being or not .. YET .. WILL eventually become a human being whether you will it or not, unless of course you choose to abort the fetus .. which in its own right belongs in an entirely separate thread, NOT this particular discussion.

To make this comparison is as asinine and ridiculous as comparing apples to oranges in a debate about the death penalty and it's ramifications on society as a whole. Please refrain from making random generalized and opinionated comments such as this that do nothing FOR the conversation and take FROM it the appreciation many others may have for reading here.

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Attention everyone: We have another potential asshole in the area !

You don't have bad luck, the reason bad things happen to you is because you're a dumbass !!

Dinner $50
Drinks $30
Motel $40

Finding out she swallows -
PRICELESS!!!