Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
I believe that has, and always should be, left up to society as a whole. You know, that whole "we the people" sort of thing when it comes to deciding what is right for ALL of us who obey the generally accepted rules of being ALLOWED to thrive / survive, in a lawful manner, within this community.
|
Maybe it's because my country wasn't founded on the phrase "we the people," but I still don't understand this. Are you suggesting that everybody in the nation get together and take a vote? Clearly the people are divided on issues just like this one.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
... We liberal minded folk call them "animals". When an "animal" in our society takes the life of another citizen in our community, we put them down...
|
That's a cop-out. My point was that these
aren't animals (and please spare me the biology, it has no place here). These are human beings. You can call them every name, every epithet you can think of, but you can't just arbitrarily decide they're not human.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
Their very actions clearly demonstrate their differences between the acceptable norm of human behaviour and those of crazed animals who cannot abide by / reside within the accepted boundaries of the law of the land and refrain from inhumane practices on their fellow man.
|
And again. Does it make it easier to cry for blood if you don't think of it as human blood? I don't understand that attitude at all.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
Human, yes. Deserving of the right to survive amongst the rest of the human population after such heinous acts .. definitely not.
|
This is not up for debate. Living amongst the rest of the population is not an option anyone is advocating. The disagreement stems from something much more basic, which is the right to survive at all. I cannot condone the taking of a human life. I will agree that in the most dire and immediate circumstances it may be necessary, but I do not agree that it is right. The circumstances here are neither dire nor immediate. The damage has been done. What is there to be gained by any further acts of murder?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
Reread this entire thread and the submitted link that states how they brutally tortured and unceremoniously killed an innocent woman and her unborn child. Not one innocent life, but technically two, taken without remorse or sane reason. I am somewhat surprised you needed this one clarified.
|
I lack neither reading nor comprehension skills. I'm fully aware of the events that transpired as they've been related.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
You should be sickened by this, any decent human being would be, I should hope. I, personally, am outraged that more people aren't coming forward and crying out for their executions.
|
I ask you again; what is there to be gained from this? It certainly does their victim no good.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
I'm not proposing that we, as a society, lower to the level of the accused in this matter. There is no sane reason why they cannot be executed in the most humane fashion possible, lest it offend your sensitivities and those like you. And I mean you no insult by saying that. It's just a simple matter of differing perspectives in this from where I stand. I believe they should be executed publicly, say by firing squad, so that the rest of society knows right off, this is what you get for torturing and murdering our innocent members of the community. I think that would be far more productive in hindering the spread of the type of behaviour in our society, than holding the animal's hand while we stuff them full of drugs or gases to make them take their eternal dirt nap in a most peaceful nature. Personally, I'd rather they shit themselves in fear at the sound of the bullet being fired at their lunatic skulls, knowing with distinct finality that this is what their evil led them to, but that's just me.
|
You're contradicting yourself. Wanting them to "shit themselves in fear," essentially wanting them to live the remainder of thier lives in fear and torment is not taking the same course of action? Do you really believe there's any deterrent for this kind of antisocial sociopathic behaviour?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
Now I know there are those cases where the "accused" is actually quite innocent and erroneously charged, and I believe there should be extenuating circumstances and procedures to separate those cases from the ones where there is more than enough solid proof of guilt to proceed right to execution, but I'll save that passionate rant for the proper thread.
|
I believe you misunderstand me. My issue with the death penalty does not stem from the reasonable doubt argument (although that certainly is a practical concern.) Once more for clarity,
I cannot condone any course of action that leads to the taking of a human life. Regardless of what they've done, regardless of (to be perfectly crude) how fucked up they are. There is no justification for murder.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kahn
In closing I will say, you seem like a decent enough person to me. You're in a state of shock and/or dismay over this situation and I honestly feel compassion and remorse for how this has made you think and feel. But this is the society we live in, and we're in this kind of position because monsters like these stated here are not more severely punished for their heinous crimes to begin with. If we executed murderers expediently, and without all the red tape of second guessing our decisions to execute them in the first place, more of these lunatics might get the impression we mean business when we say "thou shalt not kill".
|
You're correct that this has dismayed me greatly, and that I initially was far more emotional about this than is the norm for me. I don't yet know why that is; it's a question I'll need to ask myself at another time. I am feeling calmer now and am thus better able to present my arguments on this matter, but my opinion has not changed. Killing these people doesn't show anyone that "we mean business." The death penalty is not a deterrent to sociopathic behaviour and stating that it is runs counter to our understanding of the psychology behind such behaviour. The idea of deterrence is a justification for the real intent of the death penalty, which is retribution. It is my opinion that this is not a justifiable reason to take a life, particularly when there are much more productive ends for such individuals.
I look at someone who's capable of these sorts of crimes and I see another human being. This woman who was supposedly the ringleader started out the same way you and I did. She had a mother and a father, presumably a family and a childhood home. The question that I'm forced to ask is where did she go wrong that you or I didn't? What made her into what she is? If we can answer that, we may be able to prevent others from following in her footsteps. Killing her, while satisfying on a personal level, ultimately does no good for anyone.