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Originally Posted by pan6467
I am not trying to be a smartass or cause problems of an fashion. Hopefully people see that.
I cut the middle out, it was quite an interesting read thank you. I just wanted to focus on these 2 things here.
"You know it when you see it"..... again, everyone has differing views on what torture is. What someone like WillRavel may see as torture, someone on the other side of the spectrum like UsTwo may not think is close to torture.
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Well, like what? Aside from things like certain people describing water boarding as 'having a little water splashed on ones face', and our lovely media's complete failure to actually, you know, investigate or report anything, I think most reasonable people are pretty clear on what is and is not torture. One can't reasonably expect an answer to things like "Is being deprived of sleep torture?" - That's far to vague, and doesn't give any context whatsoever. If I can't sleep in my prison cell because I'm afraid of the dark, I'm not being tortured. But if I'm given nothing to sleep on but freezing cold damp cement, while being kept in total darkness for days on end with a recording of dogs barking constantly playing...
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Originally Posted by pan6467
I agree new ways to inflict pain are constantly being created, thus the rules have to be open and vague..... however, because of that we can see people going to extremes on both sides.
I just was curious as people answered the poll what they considered torture. I find it interesting and telling when most, can't seem to define, yet they are against it 100%.
Some point to laws written, but they are open to interpretation and vague, and they don't answer "what that person truly considers to be torture?"
I for one have demonstrated what I believe, in part.
Is not a discussion in Philosophy/Politics and in life in general about sharing your points of view, sharing your beliefs and how you came to those?
I find it interesting so many will get pissy when challenged to do so.
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Well, that's fair. My point was that if you start to list all of the things that are torture, the list is never going to be complete. You have to be somewhat vague and use terms that are open to interpretation. Consider that there's no objective way to measure pain - at all. Pain is a completely subjective experience - it has to do with exactly what is happening to you, your mental state, and lots of other factors. How much does being poked with a needle hurt (ie, an injection)? I've had several dozen injections throughout my life for vaccinations and whatnot. I get a flu shot every year. Sometimes they hurt more than others.
And consider things that are not painful, per say, but might still be torture. I, personally, cannot *stand* repetitive noises. Listening to a tape of a baby crying or a dog barking in a loop for several days really would be torture for me. So you have to go by what the person actually experiences, and the intent of the person doing it to them. Wikipedia to the rescue:
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
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I think that's a pretty good definition. It's good enough for someone who is responsible for prisoners to safely say he isn't torturing someone - if you follow the rules, and don't do anything outside of the rules to coerce or punish your prisoners, then you're fine. Being locked up probably involves severe mental suffering, but there are various laws, regulations, and international treaties that explain what the conditions are that prisoners should be kept so the imprisonment is as humane as possible.