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Originally Posted by ottopilot
Yes, Rev. Wright and his ministry (not necessarily the members) is based on angry racist, race-baiting, anti-government bigotry. It's a highly unfortunate state and most likely unintended in it's origins. In case you missed it, and if you are in perpetual denial, please view or read transcripts from any of the recent videos showing Rev. Wright's shining moments and reflect on why Barak Obama was compelled to make a speech today.
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I read the transcripts. I listened to what he said. I disagree with your assertion that his statements were racist or race-baiting. They were certainly anti-government - when the government has done *bad* things, I'm anti-government too. I notice you switched from "anti-american" to "anti-government". Those two things are not the same.
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Originally Posted by ottopilot
Sen. Obama showed poor judgement in his association with Rev. Wright and it's perceived as trouble beneath the surface for a potential president for all Americans. At some point, all racism is going to have to get over itself or just continue tearing each other down. Racism is as racism does, black, white, green. Race is being used as a political devise on all sides. Because you're black and angry doesn't justify your own rationalized blind racism.
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I disagree that Rev Wright being *angry* with America, and white Americans, for treating him and other black people is racism. It's anger. It's *justified* anger. Now, I agree with Mr. Obama that the way in which the anger was expressed by Rev. Wright was divisive and unhelpful - but losing your temper and saying hurtful things is not the same as racism.
Rev. Wright said some unhelpful destructive things recently. I do not agree with your assumption that these angry unhelpful things are a sign of racism or anti-americanism.
Mr. Obama has been attending that church for *20 years*. These statements were made very recently, while Obama was on the campaign trail, not even in the church. Do you have proof showing a pattern of such divisive rhetoric from Rev. Wright? Do you have any statements of his that are actually racist or anti-american? Cite them, please.
(For the record, I'm not black, not that it really matters for this discussion.)
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Originally Posted by ottopilot
Are you comfortable with a presidential candidate for all Americans subscribing to a "Black Value System" as the basis of his church's ministry?
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It's a statement of faith *of the church* as a *body of believers*. It is not a gospel or life statement or a set of commandments that each of the members must subscribe to. It explains why they are together as a body of believers.
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Originally Posted by ottopilot
The Trinity United Church of Christ Statement of Faith http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
For fun, try switching the word "White" with "Black" used in this statement. |
Try using 'French' and 'France'. Do you really fail to see how "black" people have been oppressed in this country? Do you really believe that all of the oppression is in the past - something in the dim memory of our culture, but of course never happens today? Do you really not understand why a community of black Christian believers, especially within the context of when the document you quote was written, might form to support one another, to share faith, and to foster a community identity? Do you really equate these oppressed people, banding together in a community with a 'black' version of white supremacists?
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Originally Posted by ottopilot
11 and 12 are of particular concern ... here's the rest
The point is not that Obama is the racist, but how he associates himself with those who are racially controversial and his resulting poor political judgement.
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Obama is not a racist - check.
He associates himself with those who are racially controversial - check.
(Shouting now)
GOOD FOR HIM! RACIALLY CONTROVERSIAL?! THAT MEANS "ANGRY BLACK PEOPLE", DOESN'T IT? DAMN RIGHT THEY'RE ANGRY - THEY HAVE A DAMN GOOD REASON FOR BEING ANGRY. WE FUCKING ENSLAVED THEIR ANCESTORS, RAPED THE WOMEN, FLOGGED THE MEN, CALLED THEM "NIGGERS", LYNCHED THEM, TOLD THEIR CHILDREN THEY WEREN'T "GOOD ENOUGH" TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH WHITE CHILDREN, AND EVEN, TO THIS VERY DAY, SUBJECT THEM TO SUBTLE RACISM *EVERY* *SINGLE* *DAY*. AND, WHEN ONE OF THEM *DARES* TO GET ANGRY ABOUT IT, PEOPLE GO AROUND FAINTING AND CLUTCHING AT THEIR PEARLS AND CRYING "OH, NO, REVERSE-RACISM!".
(Ok, done shouting)
These are not things that happened 'a long time ago'. People alive today remember some of these events. They are our history. Obama today made a truly amazing speech about reconciling people in this country. If you, or anyone else, want to hear it:
ottopilot, I hope the above doesn't seem like a personal attack. I don't mean it personally. However, you express a viewpoint that I think is wrongheaded and dangerous, and furthermore make me angry. A black community coming together and forming a community, making a statement of faith that expresses their desire to strengthen that community (*especially* when this statement was written, which was a number of years ago), is not racism. An angry black man who has lived with racism his entire life, and sometimes expresses his anger, is not racist. An angry man who is fed up with the government 'of the people' doing reprehensible, ungodly, sinful things in our name is not anti-American. A man who loses his temper and says divisive hurtful things on occasion is not a crank, or a bad person. He is simply human.
And finally, Barack Obama accepting him as a flawed human being, who he loves even as he disagrees with, instead of disavowing that relationship, is a wonderful thing, and makes me proud to be an American, and an Obama supporter.