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Old 03-18-2008, 02:21 PM   #69 (permalink)
KnifeMissile
 
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Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Well... Physics usually point to six universal constants (The force that binds atomic nuclei together, the binding strength of forces that hold atoms together divided by gravitational attraction, the density of matter in the universe, the strength of the cosmic antigravity that controls the expansion of the universe, the size of the ripples in the expanding universe and the number of dimensions in our space) which make life possible. If, say, gravitational attraction was off by 1/1,000,000,000,000 then life wouldn't exist. You can either believe that 1.) things happened by chance or 2.) that there are various multi-verses and that our universe is simply part of that chain or 3.) that there is a Divine Creator. Occam's razor states that in the event of three conflicting theories that you should pick the simplest and most straight-forward method.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Yes, I know what I false dichotomy is which is why I included option #4.
The emphasis is mine. This thread is old so I'm not sure I'm following it correctly but is this the list you're referring to? Where's option number 4?


Quote:
Science makes hundreds of assumptions, few of which I see you question. Say what you will, but I don't assume God exists; I know he exists. Getting slightly off-topic, but I personally believe that everyone knows God exists. However, I think it's easier for people to believe that there's a logical explanation for everything as we like the known for fear the unknown.
Good God, where do I start?

Science, by definition, is a set of assumptions. The assurance of science is that these assumptions allow us to do things. The important part of your assumptions is that they're dubious. They're based on nothing but personal whims.

Oh, you know there's a god. I'm reassured, then! ...'cause, if you know something, it must be true!

Some of us assume there's a logical explanation for everything 'cause this assumption allows us to control everything. More seriously, we look at the world and deduce cause and effect so that we may contrive causes to produce wanted effects. It's worked brilliantly, by the way. The fact that we're communicating at all is a good example of some of our efforts...

I don't think "fear of the unknown" is a good characterization for wanting explanations. Do we do cancer research because we're afraid of not knowing what causes cancer? Only in that we wish to stop cancer from killing us and understand cancer is the only way of stopping it...


Just for fun, here's a well done video for you to watch:
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Quote:
If I ask you what created the universe if God didn't, you'll readily admit to not knowing but adamantly claim that it's not God. You'll argue that there isn't a God based on the assumption that tomorrow we might know more than we know today. I believe God to not only be the creator of the universe but unexplainable. The fact that you can't rationalize the creation of the universe only serves to strengthen my belief.

Oh, and Occam's Razor. Most of the explanations regarding the creation of the universe are much, much, much, much more complex and implausible than the existence of a divine creator.
First, I wouldn't argue this. You're probably thinking of willravell and I'm insulted you'd conflate the two of us. Do you really think that "we don't know" is not a more honest answer to the question of the creation of the universe than "my god did it?"

Secondly, you clearly don't understand parsimony. It's not that the most simple answer is the preferable one or we'd all stop researching these complex scientific theories and subscribe to the mindlessly simple theory that "God did it." You didn't give this much thought, did you? Considering your blind belief in God, this shouldn't surprise me...


Quote:
Let's look at the odds of life occurring in this universe. The probability of such an occurrence happening "By accident" is something like one over a million to the millionth power. Things only happen "By accident" when you deny the existence of God
Again, I'm going to trust your calculations 'cause you sure... know.. a... lot...

Besides, I'm not entirely sure what a low chance of life is supposed to prove. You must attribute some metaphysical significance to life for its probability to be relevant. Any number of unlikely things could have happened. Instead, this has happened. So what? Self replicating proteins exist, therefore, it must have been the work of a great protein maker in the sky...
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