Thread: "Patriot" Act
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Old 06-04-2003, 06:56 PM   #65 (permalink)
Kadath
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell

Well, I think you've made two points here.

The first is that no amount of money is worth taking a human life.

Is this really what you mean?

Are you against armed guards in banks who WILL shoot to kill even robbers who do not hurt anyone?
Yeah, I do mean that. I'm not down on bank security guards for doing their jobs, just like I'm not down on police officers or soldiers for doing their jobs, but I'm not happy about killing no matter how it happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell

The other point is no, not everyone agrees with giving up their wallet vs. killing someone. Aside from the simple question of, "why should I?", robbery is usually just one step on the ladder for criminals. And many robberies are halted simply by showing a gun. The NRA estimates that for every attempted robbery or crime reported, between 3 and 5 are detered by the simple showing of a gun. In other words, you hear the bad stories (criminal usage) without hearing the good ones (deterence).
Well, can you understand me being unswayed by estimates provided by the NRA? As for the idea that robbery is just a rung on the ladder, are you proposing that by showing the gun and stopping the robbery, you halt the criminal's ascent of that crime ladder? More likely the robber will flee, and show a gun from the beginning of the next robbery.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell

Yes, I know what you mean by tone, but you are not usually the person who sets the tone, it is the criminal. A criminal is looking for an easy victim with as little risk as possible to himself. He isn't looking for a "fair fight". If you want to take your chances with a stun gun or pepper spray, great, go for it. I do not wish to take that chance. I want to keep my options open by possessing something that WILL end the encounter in my favor if I need it.

I see you arguement as a personal willingness to eschew greater force in favor of ending an encounter more peacefully. Unfortunately, the criminal may not play along with your laudable intentions.
I'm trying to think of a way to say this without making it a personal attack, but it comes down to the fact that you're afraid and can't function without a gun. It's not all that hard to avoid being the victim of a crime. You just exercise some judgement and you don't need a gun to be safe. Keep your options open, if it makes you feel better.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell

And hopefully, they never will. But do you know the adage about placing all your eggs in one basket?
See above.

Quote:
Originally posted by Lebell

It is not a pat answer, but it is an option I want.

Please be honest with me and yourself. If tonight an unknown intruder was breaking into your house and you had the option of a gun (with copper jacketed Federal Hydrashok (hollowpoint) ammo) or a stun gun, what would you choose?

Remember, this person is unknown, with unknown weapons and unknown intent. You've called 911 but they may be 5 to 15 minutes away. Maybe your girlfriend or wife is with you, maybe you have children too.

So what do you choose and what do you do?

And this scenario is NOT uncommon. Home invasions happen frequently, where the owners are beaten and killed.
All right. Time to bust some stats from the BoJ.

From here we see that there are 2 million violent crimes a year............................................................................................................................You know....When I started to research this, I cared, but I just don't now. You go ahead and have your guns, and shoot a person if you have to, and live with that. Here's my last question. What do I have to gain by my position? What is in it for me? Your position gains you your guns, but mine? I already don't have a gun. No one is forcing me. So why am I so adamant? Who am I doing this for?

ubertuber: Sweet nick, A. B, your question is a good one. I would refer you once again to Britain, who doesn't have that problem. As for here, tough laws on guns. You make possessing a gun a crime with a mandatory 5 year sentence, and using one 15-20. Yup, that'll do it. BUT IT'S SERETOGIS' FAULT!!!!!!
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