Quote:
|
Originally Posted by willravel
Atheism isn't a religious belief, though. It's a term explaining what someone is not (like gentile!). Maybe that's why it's so difficult to argue against. It's not really one doctrine or set of beliefs. My atheism is founded in what I view is rationalism. Someone else's may be rooted in something completely different. It's not like we have a Bible or something.
|
You don't have to have a bible, or an organization, or unified beliefs, or anything else. When I say atheism is a religious belief, I don't mean that there's some sort of Church of Nuh-Uh that atheists belong to. I mean that the belief that the rationalist paradigm (or the nihilist paradigm, or the humanist paradigm, or whatever foundation a person's atheism happens to be built on. I am just going with rationalism because that seems popular) is, essentially, the only authentic and effective means of engaging the universe and attempting to discover truths valuable to human beings...is a belief. It is a belief that you and I would both agree works spectacularly well for scientific endeavors. You and I would differ on its efficacy for matters spiritual. But there is nothing any more inherently true about the notion of rationalism's authenticity or effectiveness in matters spiritual than there is about any religion's authenticity or effectiveness.
To not believe in God cannot stand on its own: there must inevitably be a "rather." As in, I don't believe in God, rather, I believe in...(science, rationalism, humanism, nothingness, chaos, or whatever other things occupy that philosophical place). Human beings instinctively require a framework of structure in which to understand the universe. I don't believe (ironically) in the notion of an atheism solely defined by its prime negative attribute. Therefore, there are inevitably going to be philosophical frameworks that the atheist will apply, or invent, even if not always refined and formulated.
But my point is, when I say a religious belief, I mean not a belief in a religion, but a belief in some system or notion that holds equivalent status to the atheist in question as a religion would to a theist.
You can't prove anything about spirituality scientifically, nor can the supernatural ever be quantified by rational means: those experiences are by definition arational. They require a completely different paradigm to function and be understood effectively.
I don't try to prove or disprove atheism (or theism, for that matter), any more than I would try to "prove" Judaism to a non-Jew. First, it's a waste of time to try and prove the unprovable to people who don't agree with you in the first place. Second of all, it's not merely comparing apples and oranges (as might be said of, say, Judaism and Christianity, which at least share the same theistic paradigm): it's like someone saying "Sexual love is a beautiful thing," and another person saying "But I just don't care for Gothic architecture." Or having an artist show you a painting, and asking him to solve the painting using the quadratic formula.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martian
Keep in mind, though, that from Levite's perspective his belief system is superior, since it's founded on the word of God and that trumps logic. It's all about point of view.
|
Whoa, whoa, whoa! I never said that, and never would! My whole point is that I don't judge systems of belief on a hierarchical scale! That includes mine!
My view is-- and for the record, it's the traditional view of Rabbinic Judaism-- that what you believe or if you believe at all is infinitely less important than how you behave. I would rather see (and according to Judaism, God would rather see) an atheist who helps the poor, comforts the sick, feeds the hungry, and promotes justice in society than a Jew (or adherent of any other religion) who observes all the ritual trappings of the religion, but does no charity, acts out of selfishness and greed, promotes injustices in society, and in general acts like an asshole.
And when I talk about theism or the supernatural, I'm not referring to the word of God (which, by the way, is a term of questionable theological standing, and by Jewish standards should not trump logic, when logic is used within the theistic paradigm): I'm referring to being open to leaps of faith (which are a choice made deliberately), being open to experiences of the world not dependent upon the five physical senses or sensing machines, and the belief that there are truths about the universe that can be acquired through such experiences.