Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Isn't this illegal? Iran-Contra 2.0

roachboy · 03-06-2008, 08:39 AM

i am not playing a game of standing blindly pro-israel political positions on their head, xazy---the whole framework gets nowhere. it has obviously gotten nowhere: look at what's happening. look at what's been happening. hamas is not a group of unproblematic folk--but they have traction BECAUSE of the occupation and increasingly its brutality JUSTIFIES their existence and EXTENDS their appeal. it's an entirely self-defeating situation. the americans and israelis made a bad bad choice when they decided to separate in their imaginations gaza from the west bank, purportedly to split fatah (another not entirely unproblematic organization) from hamas---the error was not allowing hamas to take power. power moderates: look at the history of israel itself for proof (who were the folk who assumed power after 1948 and what were they like politically before that?) if the same logic had been applied to israel itself that israel now applies to palestine, there'd be no israel. face it: it is a stupid, brutal policy that has been substituted for reason with reference to gaza, and its results brutalize ALL sides--though if you equate casualty rates on the israeli side to those of the palestinian population in gaza, you simply rule yourself out of serious conversation--this is not to say--and dont try to impute it to me---that israeli casualties are ok---but come on, be serious--massive palestinian casualties and everyday life in grinding miserable conditions PRODUCED by the israeli siege because the government is using the fact they dont like hamas to justify crushing the gaza population--that is not right..

fact is that the dynamic is foul beyond imagining. no-one wins. no-one can win. weak political regimes in the us and israel depend on this violence to prop themselves up.

what is happening in gaza is either among the most cynical policy choices i know of since--o--the war in iraq---or it is the result of a colossal fuck up, one of the biggest since---o--the war in iraq.

while the consequences of this incompetence unfold, FAR more palestinians die in FAR worse conditions every day in gaza than obtain ANYWHERE in israel. period.

justify that.
i cant.

03-06-2008, 08:39 AM	#35 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i am not playing a game of standing blindly pro-israel political positions on their head, xazy---the whole framework gets nowhere. it has obviously gotten nowhere: look at what's happening. look at what's been happening. hamas is not a group of unproblematic folk--but they have traction BECAUSE of the occupation and increasingly its brutality JUSTIFIES their existence and EXTENDS their appeal. it's an entirely self-defeating situation. the americans and israelis made a bad bad choice when they decided to separate in their imaginations gaza from the west bank, purportedly to split fatah (another not entirely unproblematic organization) from hamas---the error was not allowing hamas to take power. power moderates: look at the history of israel itself for proof (who were the folk who assumed power after 1948 and what were they like politically before that?) if the same logic had been applied to israel itself that israel now applies to palestine, there'd be no israel. face it: it is a stupid, brutal policy that has been substituted for reason with reference to gaza, and its results brutalize ALL sides--though if you equate casualty rates on the israeli side to those of the palestinian population in gaza, you simply rule yourself out of serious conversation--this is not to say--and dont try to impute it to me---that israeli casualties are ok---but come on, be serious--massive palestinian casualties and everyday life in grinding miserable conditions PRODUCED by the israeli siege because the government is using the fact they dont like hamas to justify crushing the gaza population--that is not right.. fact is that the dynamic is foul beyond imagining. no-one wins. no-one can win. weak political regimes in the us and israel depend on this violence to prop themselves up. what is happening in gaza is either among the most cynical policy choices i know of since--o--the war in iraq---or it is the result of a colossal fuck up, one of the biggest since---o--the war in iraq. while the consequences of this incompetence unfold, FAR more palestinians die in FAR worse conditions every day in gaza than obtain ANYWHERE in israel. period. justify that. i cant. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 03-06-2008 at 08:41 AM..