Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - [SPOILERS!!] The Matrix Reloaded: Who's seen it and what did you think?

Sun Tzu · 06-04-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CSflim
Being tossing Reloaded over in my mind a bit, and I have a few points to make, and a few questions to raise.

At the start of the film we see Neo and the gang pilot their ship through the tunnels and through the big metal doors of Zion, yet the Sentinels have to drill through the earth and through a layer of iron ore in order to get to Zion. Surely it would be much faster to drill through the doors, assuming that they can find them...how hard can it be?

In The Matrix (the first one) a big deal was made by the agents of the Zion Codes: Cypher betrays Morpheus to the Agents, in order for them to extract these codes from his brain. What were these codes? And have they anything to do with the Sentinel attack? Why are they no longer needed? I'm assuming that these codes are nothing to do with the Location of Zion, as from what the Architect says, they have destroyed Zion many times before...assuming it is always in the same place...it would have to be, to get the heat of the earths core. So anyone have any idea what these codes are? And why they are no longer required?


I dont know if it was done intentially or they could get the actors, but the other two agents are different. It may not even matter. THe point is Smith was a little different from the other in two inthe first one anyway. He wanted out of the Matrix. A program that acutally couldnt stand the smell? Two pissibilities that I can think of is they giving him a chas(Neo) to give him purpose or structure or Smith has already begun to change (as some programs do get corrupted) and he wants to destroy the cache (Zion) doing so he would destroy the Matrix, but possibly at the cost of the human race becoming aware because of a superconsious spill over without the cache) which still doens fully explain why Smith would want to since he obviously think humans are a virus.



We have been led to believe that The Matrix has been built to use humans as an alternative source of energy. I previously took this as just one of those things that we had to suspend our belief over...no need to nit pick a perfectly good story...a sorta "artistic licence" if you will. But now after seeing Reloaded, I'm not too sure. The story is obviously much more in depth, and with a more complex story, you expect things to be more accurate, and are less lenient in granting this artistic licence, and allowing such an important detail to slide. now I'm starting to believe that the brothers have thought about the absurdity of Human Batteries and that Morpheus is actually incorrect in what he believes is the ultimate purpose of the Matrix. I'm hoping that Revolutions will address this, and reveal a different reason behind The Matrix.


If there wasnt a Zion there would be a place for "fragmented or corrupted files" to go to. THese being the anomolies or humans that begin to catch on for whatever reason. With Zion they can collect them into a place away form the main Matrix and keep their energy source safe. Until the Cache begins to fill, at which time it need to be cleaned out. (Neo) This would still maintain the important everything that was stated in the first.


During Neo's discussion with the Architect the walls are covered with TVs which occasionally show Neo making alternative responses to what the Architect is saying. At the time I assumed that these "other" Neo's were the previous Ones that the Architect speaks of. People in this forum interpreted this differently and saw them as the Architect's calculated prediction of what Neo's responses will be, I am unsure of this judgement, but of course my interpretation raises a rather perplexing question; did the previous Ones physically resemble Neo? and why would they? Again I'm hoping for Revolutions to clear this up.

yeah even with it written out this scene goes way out there. Very confusing. I dont think the others looked like Neo because everyone would have known as sure as Morpheus; they'd know who to look for. I think they found him through his actions; hacking. THe other Neos could represent all the multiple choices the machines know he would make?


We have previously mentioned the idea that Neo may not be a human, but he could be a program. For this to work, we would have to assume that software can be downloaded into the brain and run from there, (in a sense the opposite of jacking into the Matrix). This seems to be the case from what we have seen of Bane/Smith. Perhaps it is possible that Neo is not even Flesh and Blood at all, but is in fact a Cyborg a la The Terminator, or perhaps even a Biological machine, made out of organic material as opposed to metal. This would explain all of the Neos looking alike, if in fact they were "built" by the machines. Take this quote from the architect:

So Neo and his predecessors were "designed"? But earlier in the speech he refers to Neo as a human?


Im hoping they explain this better. Its hard to tell whether Neo is a program because do what he does and no other human can. Kind of like AI develops; Neo developed either before or faster than the other "hopefuls" (programs) children from the first are actually programs that are developing AI?
or he is both; a human with all this programming etched into his brain.
Or he is prgrammed to be a human.


In a continuation of the question of allowing software to run from a brain, I pose the question, If "knowledge" is downloaded into a persons brain (e.g. how to hotwire a motorcycle) does the person have that knowledge in the real world?

In the first film Morpheus et al were terrified of the Agents. Fighting them was not an option, all they could hope to do was run! Only The One could ever hope to fight an Agent and live, yet in Reloaded it seems that Morpheus more than holds his own in a fight against an Agent in the highway chase scene...how is the possible, given the fear of the agents in the first film? Has something happened since then that we missed out, or have the brothers simply forgotten themselves? Bare in mind that these Agents are even stronger than the originals, they are updates.


Another main reason why the cache must be cleaned; because humans progress. They learn much like if not better than AI. Morpheus is simply better and more skilled than the first. If the cache as a whole were to progress like this that would be a problem for the machines.



Why aren't the Agents equipped with the super powers that are available to "obsolete" programs? Surely as the Matrix's main line of defence they would be given everything that was available? The Twin's have the ability to "ghost" in and out of reality, and the Vampires can only be harmed by silver bullets (The Agents can be killed with normal bullets; "Dodge This!")


I have to go to class I'd like to respond with more of my theory. PLease excuse the mispellings I didnt have time to run spell check so I know is saturated with them.



Now for the big one!I'm not sure that I fully understood what the Architect meant about the choice. What is the choice...choose between what? and who makes it? Does everyone make this choice, or just one? Why does the presence of a choice change the amount of people who accept the Matrix?

My understanding of it is that at an unconscious level all people are given the choice to accept the Matrix or not, and that 99.9% of people choose to accept it, those that don't accept it wake up. This is contradictory to the first film, where people it seemed had to be woken up by others...but who woke them up? Maybe not all people had to be woken up, some just woke themselves, and then woke others? This seems unlikely...consider what would have happened to Neo, had the ship not been their to rescue him. I doubt he would have gotten his act together and built a ship, and a computer and hack the matrix and fly to Zion! I wonder what it would be like for someone to choose not to accept the Matrix on their own, and just woke up...remember...the Earth is a pretty big place!

How is the presence of a choice different from the first and second Matrices? Did they "force" people to accept the Matrix? This doesn't make sense, as surely it was people rejecting the Matrix that caused it to be such a "monumental failure"?...they rejected it, ergo they had a choice! See my confusion! Unless the "monumental failure" did not in fact entail people rejecting the Matrix as we were led to believe by Agent Smith in the first film, but it failed in some other way?

Unless of course the choice he was referring to was Neos choice between the two doors...but that makes no sense at all as to how that would make 99.9% of the people accept the Matrix!

The Architect also refers to the anomaly, which are presumably the 0.1% of people who reject The Matrix, i.e. the Zionites. He claims that these are a threat to the system, and hence must be periodically wiped out. My question is this: Why allow them to become a threat? Why not simply have a buzzsaw whirring at the bottom of the slide before escapees are dunked into the drink? Problem solved! Of course this flaw of logic was apparent in the first film...why not kill Neo and everyone else as soon as they awaken. Again this was forgiven due to the above mentioned "artistic licence" as a film with a Hero blended to mulch would not make for exciting viewing, but now with these new revelations, such silliness is unacceptable! so what's going on!?

Why is The One required in order for the system to be reset? Why can't the Architect reset it himself? Why, for that matter, does it even need to be reset? There is mention of Neo's code being assimilated into the Matrix. What good will that do?

Phew! That went on a bit longer than I expected! Anyway, I'm dieing to see Revolutions...all I'll say is that it has a lot to answer to! Any input would be greatly appreciated!