I'm going to try to play catch-up in this thread a bit, which means it'll be a huge post. Probably not a good idea for my first venture into the politics forum, but I bet a mod will let me know either way real quick.
Anyway, topic:
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Originally Posted by dksuddeth
I was lied to when I enlisted in the marine corps.
I was told to NOT tell them about my drug expirementation with speed or they would discharge me. Well, in my 18 year old fear, I confessed.......and didn't get discharged.
That was it. So yeah, they lied to me.
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Not to nitpick too much, but the "Moment of Truth" that USMC recruiters play up so much is not really a good comparison. As one of the other posts pointed out, a recruiter at MEPS will usually verify that the station or sub-station recruiters didn't promise you anything extra or tell you to hide pre-existing medical conditions. Those in charge at boot camp/basic training usually ask the same thing about the MEPS guys.
But yeah, the same exact thing happened to me.
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Originally Posted by host
How do you broach a subject such as this, a symptom of what happens in a "this is my country, right or wrong, no matter what policies it's government pursues", political atmosphere?
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I don't see many regular citizens, much less political figures, falling into that mindset at all. Especially not after we all re-elected Bush and he continued fuckin' up. Hell, I have a tough time finding folks who are patriotic at all, most days.
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Originally Posted by host
How should I have worded the title, to balance upside down thinking? Who's sensibilities blah blah blah etc.
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You could have called it "Berkeley City Council Opposes Marine Recruiters".
I don't wanna get off on the wrong foot with you, host, but honestly - just the tone of the title pissed me off and drew me in here. I've since calmed down and seen a lot of good discussion in the thread - from
other posters.
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Originally Posted by willravel
I totally get it. I'm trying to protect idiots. It happens a lot. It's a big part of being a liberal.
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That's gotta be a quote of the year or something. Seriously, that just cracks my shit up, no matter who you're talking about.
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Originally Posted by loquitur
uh, no. I didn't say it was all right to lie. I said it's silly for you to expect that all military recruiters will be paragons of moral perfection if you're not willing to hold other organizations to the same standards.
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Spot-on. As much as the Berkeley CC has been beating the Corps over the head with the 'recruiting lies argument', I'd imagine there's plenty of other immoral and unethical (possibly even ecologically unsound) activity perpetrated daily by other organizations/leaseholders in that city (as with any other). Of course, anything involving the war in Iraq is a guaranteed draw for media regardless of bias, which may or may not have anything to do with the Council's course of action.
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Originally Posted by loquitur
Fact is, will, you're trying to impose standards on the military that you're not willing to impose on organizations toward which you feel more warmly.
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I have to disagree with loq on this one. Those standards
should be imposed on the military from within. As a career military man - and much, much more so as a Marine - it seriously upsets me when <STRIKE>those</STRIKE> our standards are called into question, justly or otherwise. It hurts a lot worse when there's not something I can personally do to correct it.
This is the standard that every American should expect from the Marine Corps, if not all military members.
I might be a brainwashed, torture-promulgatin' lifer, but I sincerely do believe that with all my heart.
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Originally Posted by willravel
If one is verbally abused by someone on the street and a police car is driving by, it's within the rights of the police officer to pull over and attempt to break it up in the interest of protecting the peace.
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Just an aside, but, um... it's within the assigned, sworn duties of the police officer to intervene - moreso if the
rights of someone else are being infringed. I'm not a law-ttorney, but I think that one might be called "battery".
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Originally Posted by allaboutmusic
Of course it's reasonable. Not many people would want to join if they knew the truth.
Whether it's ethical is of course a completely different question.
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That's about the best summation of this whole topic that I've seen to date.
Now that I've provided some observations on this thread, I think I'll use a separate post for thoughts on the issue itself... and also provide an opportunity for Halx (or another mod) to lay a gigantic slap on my pee-pee, if needed.