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echo5delta · 02-20-2008, 11:11 AM

This is a subject near and dear to my heart as well.

I've carried the 20" bbl M-16A4 for extended deployments in Iraq, one of which saw me out and about daily in little crappy bases where dust and dirt was EVERYWHERE. Modifying my weapons maintenance accordingly, I never had a problem with it, though it's not uncommon.

Mostly due to my training, I have no problems hitting targets consistently at 500 meters with open sights. 200 and 300 is like a turkey shoot, and if you slap an ACOG on there... hell, it's just point & click. I'm sure I could do the same with an M4.

Some of the "reliability testing" for the AR is complete CRAP, though. Firing full auto (or even semi) at the cyclic rate for 300, 400, 500 rounds at a stretch without any cleaning is going to make any RIFLE look bad. If it's employed within its designed limitations (sustained rate of fire), stoppages happen a hell of a lot less frequently.

However comma...

A vast majority of stoppages for the AR weapon system can be attributed directly to the magazine. Cleaning and maintaining your mags is essential to reliable operation. Better yet, you can do like me: buy 7 HK magazines (for the SA-80 & 416) and turn the crappy, GI ones back in to the armory.

I wish I could find it online, but I did see a newspaper article about potential weapon systems the USMC is looking at for replacing the M4/M16 series. This was testing done by manufacturer reps AND DoD folks, scoring based on a number of factors: accuracy, reliability, and four different categories and types of stoppages. The XM-8 was rated highest, then the SCAR, followed by the 416. Even though the 416 'finished last' among those tested, it's scores all around pretty much smoked the M4/M16.

All in all, I'm a bit concerned about what the final verdict would be. The SCAR and XM8 don't seem like they'd be "grunt proof" to me - then again, I've never played with either one. The 416 would be a great improvement, and everyone who's intimate with the AR (like most soldiers and all Marines) would have little difficulty transitioning.

What I *do* know is that if, and as soon as HK puts those up for sale commercially in the US, I'll be the first motherfucker to fork over ~$3000, and smile while I'm doing it.

02-20-2008, 11:11 AM	#21 (permalink)
echo5delta Crazy Location: Swamp Lagoon, North Cackalacky	This is a subject near and dear to my heart as well. I've carried the 20" bbl M-16A4 for extended deployments in Iraq, one of which saw me out and about daily in little crappy bases where dust and dirt was EVERYWHERE. Modifying my weapons maintenance accordingly, I never had a problem with it, though it's not uncommon. Mostly due to my training, I have no problems hitting targets consistently at 500 meters with open sights. 200 and 300 is like a turkey shoot, and if you slap an ACOG on there... hell, it's just point & click. I'm sure I could do the same with an M4. Some of the "reliability testing" for the AR is complete CRAP, though. Firing full auto (or even semi) at the cyclic rate for 300, 400, 500 rounds at a stretch without any cleaning is going to make any RIFLE look bad. If it's employed within its designed limitations (sustained rate of fire), stoppages happen a hell of a lot less frequently. However comma... A vast majority of stoppages for the AR weapon system can be attributed directly to the magazine. Cleaning and maintaining your mags is essential to reliable operation. Better yet, you can do like me: buy 7 HK magazines (for the SA-80 & 416) and turn the crappy, GI ones back in to the armory. I wish I could find it online, but I did see a newspaper article about potential weapon systems the USMC is looking at for replacing the M4/M16 series. This was testing done by manufacturer reps AND DoD folks, scoring based on a number of factors: accuracy, reliability, and four different categories and types of stoppages. The XM-8 was rated highest, then the SCAR, followed by the 416. Even though the 416 'finished last' among those tested, it's scores all around pretty much smoked the M4/M16. All in all, I'm a bit concerned about what the final verdict would be. The SCAR and XM8 don't seem like they'd be "grunt proof" to me - then again, I've never played with either one. The 416 would be a great improvement, and everyone who's intimate with the AR (like most soldiers and all Marines) would have little difficulty transitioning. What I do know is that if, and as soon as HK puts those up for sale commercially in the US, I'll be the first motherfucker to fork over ~$3000, and smile while I'm doing it. __________________ "Peace" is when nobody's shooting. A "Just Peace" is when we get what we want. - Bill Mauldin Last edited by echo5delta; 02-20-2008 at 11:18 AM..