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Originally Posted by silent_jay
Ignorance is no excuse, just because you didn't know about it or didn't take the time to read the TOS doesn't mean you're exempt from it.
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Unfortunately, I believe you are incorrect. I agree with you ideologically. I love the idea of honest contracts. One where both parties clearly state the provisions. However, corporate bureaucracy and sesquipidalian lawyers have caused this to no longer be the case. ToS's are such a joke that many court circuits know it, and have started throwing out ToS agreements. Many ToS are recognized as BS. Like not being allowed to return software after it is opened, but you can't read the ToS until opening it, and by opening it you agree to be bound by the ToS enclosed. Better yet when the ToS says that the ToS can change at any time without notification and that you will automatically be understood to agree with those terms as well.
You are correct ignorance does not exonerate you of responsibility to the contract, but conversely it does not force responsibility for the crime not proven to be committed by you.
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Originally Posted by silent_jay
This is an extreme circumstance and has no comparison to downloading copyrighted material so it's pointless to respond to.
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Extreme circumstances are the only circumstances that belong being compared. They make clear the blunders in logic.
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Originally Posted by silent_jay
It isn't a law, it's a legally binding contract between you and your ISP saying you take responsibility for YOUR account. I know, I know it's crazy you're responsible for your account, what a wacky concept.
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Not wacky at all. What is wacky is assuming this makes you criminally responsible for all actions on your account.
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Originally Posted by silent_jay
They have proof, they have logs saying that said material was downloaded by said account at said time on said day, they don't need much more proof than that.
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Yes, they have proof that the download happened through your account, nobody is arguing that. What they don't have proof of, is that YOU downloaded that material using your account. So, losses incurred are your responsibility, but criminally you still need to prove that I broke the law.
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Originally Posted by silent_jay
Way off base, start by reading the TOS with your ISP, you'll see you're responsible for the activity on your account, plain and simple, links have been posted in this thread to show that already.
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It's like you still aren't aware of the argument at hand. The argument from me isn't that you aren't responsible to the contract, it is that you aren't criminally responsible unless proven to be.