View Single Post
Old 02-04-2008, 04:15 AM   #7 (permalink)
pr0f3n
Crazy
 
Location: a little to the right
Quote:
Originally Posted by host
I could not disagree with you more, and I can make a reasonable case to support my contrary opinion:
You've misunderstood me. I'm not saying there aren't rich and powerful people who wish to maintain their wealth and status, I'm saying they're nothing new, nothing interesting, and as evidenced by Gen. Butler, there are always people who resist.

There is nothing special about the Business plot, it's predecessors are riddled throughout history in every family, tribe, and country since time immemorial. From your posting I'd say your view of society is too narrow and short-term. How much do you know about the history of the world? It's been 230 years since our nation was founded (the first time!). When our vaunted Constitution was written, we codified the worth of a slave as 3/5 of a man and the disenfranchisement of women. It's been 90 years since women won suffrage and 44 years since all citizens were finally ensured their right to vote. What more basic a right is there in a representative republic than the right to vote, and 81% of our history had at least some form of legal disenfranchisement. Change comes slowly, from the bottom up, and we're just starting to get the basics right.

The rich have always had undue influence, have often caused the suffering of hundreds, thousands, even millions in the course of their pursuits. The industrial revolution gave rise to far greater concentrations of money and power in the merchant class, but they're just people, and their reigns are by structure ephemeral.

It's a miracle of our age that so much information is available to the working class. It's driving our governments to behave more ethically, and when they fail, at least in the western world, we have at our disposal orderly revolutions to usurp failed leaders. Now that the merchant class has grown to be more powerful, and proportionally less responsible to it's counterparts in society, we've started to push, from the bottom up, to restrain and correct that imbalance. We've only been at this struggle for 150 years, and won some major battles along the way (unions, Sherman Act, etc.).

It's been less than 100 years since we had a global pandemic. The spread of AIDS, though urgent in it's need for attention, pales in comparison to the Spanish flu. Literacy and suffrage has never been higher in the world. Every single health indicator since we began recording these statistics has risen steadily. We have a (mostly) neutral world diplomacy organization for crissakes.

I'm not saying there are no problems, or that they shouldn't be confronted aggressively. I'm saying we are confronting the social, economic, and political problems of the world as aggressively as is reasonably possible. When we read about the Business Plot, or Enron, or Duke Cunningham, or Alberto Gonzales it should cause outrage, it should heighten our vigilance, but don't go looking for the core of the problem. The core of the problem is evident and intractable: It's humanity, in all our imperfection, failing ourselves and each other. The core of the problem can't be solved, so we must work, in the system, to improve the system. To eliminate, to the best of our ability, user error. Once we've done everything, once all solutions have been implemented, if the system still fails, that's when we change things. To do so before hand is impetuous and cruel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by host
I am trying to convey to you that I am not privy to exactly who calls the shots and what the agenda is, but I can post with a high level of confidence, and back it up....that the political dynamic in the US is not what you think it is, and the problems you perceive, (trial lawyers, and muslim extremists, for example) are the distractions, not the problems.

Again, you're too narrow and temporary in your analysis. What you're describing is demagoguery, and yes, it works, sadly, on a great swathe of the populace. You're perceiving the lie, and you're sensing who manipulates that lie, industrialists and politicians, but you're missing the point of demagoguery. People always need someone to blame. Politicians seize that fear and anger to garner votes. Merchants seize that fear and anger to sell their goods. You're doing no different, you're just demagoguing demagogists (demagoguerists?). Fear-monger the fear mongers. That's how Obama's winning, that's where Ron Paul's support came from, that's how politics works. The system works independently of demagoguery, and the better the demagogue, the less you notice the system working.
__________________
In heaven all the interesting people are missing.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Last edited by pr0f3n; 02-04-2008 at 04:26 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
pr0f3n is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360