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Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
One"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination" (Lev 18:22).
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall be put to death: their blood is upon them" (Lev 20:13).
"God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error" (Rom 1:26-27).
"Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers - none of these will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 6:9-10).
The condemnation of the law applies for those "who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers" ( 1 Tim 1:9-10).
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My issue with these passages has always been that they are rules of man and were tainted with the political realities of those preists and scribes that wrote (and/or copied) these stories.
The quotes from Leviticus, as KoKenZen rightly points out, are laws set out for a Nomadic tribe living about 3000 or more years ago. Hardly something that applies today. If it does why then are we not following all of the Talmudic laws and keeping Kosher. What, are we only following the rules we like to follow?
The other quotes come from Paul's letters. With each letter, Paul is trying to make some specific point and frequently his arguements are taken out of context (for example his oft quoted words that women should not be allowed to teach or speak in the church was specifically addressing the rise in false prophets and their influence on certain female members of the congregation, he was suggesting that care be taken before women under the influence of these false prophets be allowed to speak).
As for his comments on homosexuals... I cannot comment on the context in which they were made as I have not read and translated from the original text as I did with the above example. However, from my point of view, again this is simply a man providing rules for his followers. A man (not a God) writing at about 50 to 100 CE. Are we to take the attitudes and laws of that time at face value without first thinking what does this law mean in our time? Personally I would think not.
Quote:
Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
Two
Are you aware that there is a lot in the Bible that would indicate that Jesus IS God and IS the Holy Spirit? But not all Christians believe in the Trinity I grant you.[/B]
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This is were the Bible gets all mystical on us. Each of the Gospels are written with a specific audience in mind and therefore speak to that audience. Matthew (at least I think it is Matthew, its been a while) was aimed at a Jewish audience and so goes out of its way to directly link Jesus to King David. Right off the top there is a list of he begat so and so and she begat so and so, etc. The jewish audience needed a link to David to make the point that Jesus was the messiah. Other books take a different approach.
After all the Gospels were not written as an anthology. They were seperate stories which were only later bound together as one text.
Quote:
Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
Three
Elsewhere on this board is my (now apparently dead) thread on petitionary prayer.
S&G is one of the classic cases/challenges of petitionary prayer.
Abraham seems to think he can (and does) barter with God on how many men must be found to be good in Sodom for it to be saved. It seems that Abraham has to remind God of his moral obligations! Surely this can't be happening! [/B]
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It is happening... The early books are full of stuff like this. It seems that God was an interesting character in the earlier books and only later became quite aloof.
I will have to try and find it but I remember reading something about the nature of God in the Old Testament. He appears much like a parent and humans are much like his childeren...